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Re: 3A proud to support www.mccannfiles.com

Postby bjr » Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:38 am

I have done a thread for get well messages for RedSquare

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10111&start=60
To my critics
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When I'm in a drunken mood, I gamble, play and drink,
But when my moods are over and my time has come to pass,
I hope I'm buried upside down, so the world may kiss my ar*e
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Re: 3A proud to support www.mccannfiles.com

Postby widowan2 » Mon May 05, 2008 5:57 pm

Interesting comment in the Justine McGuiness article where she is telling of her experiences with Kate and Gerry the first four months or so, before she (was) retired:

Later, Kate took me on a tour of the village. "That's the apartment," she whispered, nodding towards the place from where Madeleine had disappeared.

She also pointed out the home of Robert Murat, a suspect in the case, and the church that provided so much support to her.

Meal times were always a family affair. At supper, it occurred to me just how ordinary this scene would have appeared to an outsider. A normal family, passing the salad around the table and laughing with their children.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

So mealtimes were always a family affair? Since May 4th perhaps. They had a lot of unordinary scenes prior to that! Can she be talking tongue in cheek? Reminding us that this family-first attitude during supper time came only AFTER their neglect resulted in the worst possible outcome for Madeleine?

I note that they refer here to Murat as 'the other suspect" which is nice to see - a site that acknowledges what McCanns wish desperately would be forgotten - that 'a dreadful crime was committed' and they are the two main suspects.
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Re: 3A proud to support www.mccannfiles.com

Postby widowan2 » Mon May 05, 2008 6:06 pm

I do note also that ine article makes a comment about how had McCanns done anything with Madeleine, someone would have seen, they could not possibly remove and hide her body or dump it without someone having seen.

However, the same is true for anyone ELSE - if PDL is such a small, sleepy, nosy place, anyone, not just a McCann, would have been noticed waltzing down the street with the child, harboring her, or dumping her. Of course not everyone was under media scrutiny like they were, but the people who live there seem to feel that everything of note and things that are inconsequential, are all noted by nosy neighbors: "You can't go for a p@ss without someone seeing."

So many things work that way. The same argument for why McCanns could not possibly have done, is the same argument that works for why no one else could possibly have done, either. The difference is one party, the MCcanns, had responsibilty to keep that child safe, and only one party should have had access to her sleeping body.

Similarly We keep hearing that they will consider her alive because there's nothing to prove she's dead. No actual forensic evidence - that the cadaver scent was hers, that the blood in the apt was sufficient to presume a death, etc. But there is nothing to prove she is alive, either. The proof there is is largely circumstantial and common sense - what usually happens to a child kidnapped for sexual purposes? What is the likely case, as to her outcome?

Good balanced reporting in this site.
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Re: 3A proud to support www.mccannfiles.com

Postby widowan2 » Mon May 05, 2008 6:26 pm

i noted moreinteresting sentences in Justine McG's one year anniversary commentary.

"Kate screamed in disbelief when she heard she was going to be declared a suspect in her daughter's case."

Screamed in disbelief? Not usually the reaction we have when in disbelief. More like screamed in rage, screamed in frustration. But let's not paint her to be that way - if she screamed it had to be in disbelief.

"And I got the distinct impression that the police had offered her a deal, or put considerable pressure on her to admit that she harmed Madeleine.

Amazingly, I was also given the impression that her lawyer initially seemed to think she should take the deal and admit she harmed her daughter."

That's interesting. Her own lawyer thought that was her best bet.

"Perhaps he was doing this to test her. I don't know. Either way, Kate was absolutely adamant that she would not be going along with any plea bargaining.
After all, this is a woman with a 'black and white' understanding of the truth."

Yes, I'm very sure that's why she would refuse to a plea bargain, nothing to do with the fact that she'd go to prison if she admited to any wrong doing!

"I told Kate that the twins were being looked after by the wife of Father Haynes Hubbard, parish priest for Praia da Luz, whom Kate and Gerry had come to know well and regard as a much-valued friend.

I said I could take her there or straight to the villa. She wanted to see her children immediately. That was typical of her. Her family was the most important thing in her life."

Uh Huh.

"But I never understood why they did not take the children with them for supper at the tapas bar on the evening Madeleine disappeared.

My two sisters, one a mother of four, the other a mother of five, have told me that is what they would do, as have plenty of other friends.

But then I don't have three children under the age of four. I, like many others, am hardly in a position to judge. I know it was a decision Kate has always deeply regretted."

You don't have to have a child or children to be able to judge this as wrong, you know it in your bones, a four year old would know it was wrong, a teenage mother would know it. WHY they left them is not interesting, legally or ethically. ONly THAT they left them.

"On the flight home I remember thinking that unless Madeleine was found, the McCanns would never be able to fully rebut speculation and rebuild their lives. "

There is no way they can rebut speculation that their neglect facilitated whatever befell their child, whether she's found dead, alive or not found. Finding her live would only rebut speculation that they killed her.

"I feel desperately for Kate McCann. Her life has been ruined by the constant speculation and the continuing mystery surrounding her daughter's disappearance. She loathes the media spotlight. "

Sure, it's a necessary evil to keeping cash rolling in though and keep "madeleine" in the spotlight. I'm sure she'd prefer the money roll in with no scrutiny or oversight. wouldn't we all.


"Gerry has to live with the knowledge that he failed as a father and a husband in a basic duty, to protect his family. That, surely, is a terrible burden to carry, for any man. "

Justine sounds like a sensible woman, despite of course NO ONE ON EARTH being in a position to njudge McCanns, she manages to hit the nail on the head and I think most of us feel the same way, except for Gerry. Does he look like he is living with the knowledge that he failed at anything? Not on the BBC May 3rd interview when he's laughing as soon as he thinks cameras are turned off. Not when he is suing the papers, or painting himself as some kind of advocate, or chuckling about being at a remote bar as if it's the same as having dinner in his garden, like he thinks he's won a point on that.

This guy is either completely arrogant or deep, deep in denial.

Auntie Phil in her remarks only says that she gave away Maddie's Scooby Doo bike she'd gotten her for her 4th birthday as she couldn't bear to look at it any more. Doesn't sound like she thinks maddie's being treated like a princess and going to come home any time soon.
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Re: 3A proud to support www.mccannfiles.com

Postby cushty » Mon May 05, 2008 6:32 pm

"I told Kate that the twins were being looked after by the wife of Father Haynes Hubbard, parish priest for Praia da Luz, whom Kate and Gerry had come to know well and regard as a much-valued friend."


why on earth weren't they being looked after by their father?
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Re: 3A proud to support www.mccannfiles.com

Postby widowan2 » Mon May 05, 2008 9:36 pm

He was there to support Kate in her hour of need? Or the pair of them were off jaunting to see the Pope?

Anyhow I think we've seen the child minding was not Gerry's forte...
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Re: 3A proud to support www.mccannfiles.com

Postby metodomom » Tue May 06, 2008 4:02 am

Good comments Widowan!

I always had the impression that they were not that family orientated. When I went abroad at a small age, I was included in the evening agenda. However, I think some parents are obsessed with routine.
When you are abroad routine goes out the window anyway! Its not that difficult for a child to return to a routine after a holiday.
They seemed against leaving the kids at the evening creche. Fair enough.....but that leaves them with two options:

1. Let the kids stay up a little later and eat together. (there is always a siesta??)

2. Don't go abroad.

How this form of babysitting came into practice beggars belief. How can you leave toddlers unattended for even 30 minutes???
Faith and doubt both are needed - not as antagonists, but working side by side to take us around the unknown curve.
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Re: 3A proud to support www.mccannfiles.com

Postby widowan2 » Tue May 06, 2008 5:33 pm

metodomom wrote:Good comments Widowan!

I always had the impression that they were not that family orientated. When I went abroad at a small age, I was included in the evening agenda. However, I think some parents are obsessed with routine.
When you are abroad routine goes out the window anyway! Its not that difficult for a child to return to a routine after a holiday.
They seemed against leaving the kids at the evening creche. Fair enough.....but that leaves them with two options:

1. Let the kids stay up a little later and eat together. (there is always a siesta??)

2. Don't go abroad.

How this form of babysitting came into practice beggars belief. How can you leave toddlers unattended for even 30 minutes???


I want to blame it on them being rich, somewhat, because they might be out of touch with parenting as the rest of us know it. Not that this is the case for most wealthy people but in their case.

It's not that regular middle income people are better at babysitting, it's that since many of us can't afford to not have the kids with us, or can't afford nannies, whereas these double income doctors can, so they get used to their children being no bother, because, for the most part, they ARE no bother - to them - cause someone else is doing the heavy lifting.
Then you go on hol. and the nanny bails out at the last second - how can you continue to have a good time, not be boogged down doing even more babysitting than you normally do - you're meant to be relaxing here, so you install them in the creche and go about your business.
I can see them being out of touch because they are doctors not teachers or babysitters - when I wanted to start my family I took courses in early childhood ed and worked a year in a Montessori because I was hugely interested in all that. I was an expert, to some extent. I had another family leave their two kids with me and they were expert at their jobs,accountants or something, and they would at times return the children to me on Monday morning with a chipped tooth or a black eye from not being properly watched, Jason fell off the toop bunk, Gregory ran bang into the open hatch of a plane at the airshow where they'd allow a 2 year old to run amok and not hold someone's hand, etc.
They'd leave their sick kids to go to work, something I would never do, not even now my eldest is 17.

I know this isn't an excuse - but McCanns do seem to be able to bring out the excuse makers among us! -Justine and everyone, Mrs Healy, trying desperately to find an answer we can believe in, as to WHY neglect your kids.

The rich Brits I know are far more into the schedule and what I find outrageously early bedtimes - 7 PM? My god what time must they get up in the morning? I don't wantto get up at 5 with a rested, full-of-beans pair of toddlers! - and getting a kid back on schedule 0r three kids back on schedule when you are home, is really hard. I can see them not wanting to drag kids who normally sleep at 730, out to dinner at 830, it won't be fun for anyone, themselves, the kids or the other diners. I don't agree with the children-separate-from-parent holiday concept but I respect it as a choice, it's not my way to go, and I have good reasons for that, but if I can understand not wanting to do that - lots of people must feel the same or they wouldn't have creches and all that in the resorts.
What I don't understand though, is how do you just suspend normal protective instincts over whether it's safe to leave children alone and go to a restaurant ?

WOuld they think that was ok, if their nanny did it? They would NOT.

You KNOW they knew it was wrong.

I think they were so used to focusing higher up the pyramid of Maslow's hierarchy, as it were, they just let the basic ABC stuff get waved away - we aren't at the low level of asking ourselves, how can we feed ourselves, we are at the upper tip, 'where shall we dine?' They are worried about sending Sean to Eton, not about guarding his perimeter.
They have enough money to protect themselves from the dirty side of life, they don't mind children, they don't clean toilets, that is for the staff to do, and if it's a bother to pick up kids at 1130 PM and resettle them, fine - then get a sitter or for god's sake a baby monitor to carry with you, you don't just leave them on their own.

That is the one thing no one can understand and it STILL a year later boggles my mind that Kate says things like 'there are different ways to parent' as an answer to that. Yes, there are different ways - early bed vs late bed and long nap - taking your own kids to the beach vs going to play tennis and leaving them in a creche, that is still a parenting choice that is valid. But the leaving them in the apt, their window opening on to a public road and car park, I just don't think, if you walk a football field away from your house to where you can only see the roof, and ask yourself, even at HOME, could I leave my toddlers there unattended, your whole body would resist that.
And I don't think the checks were done every half hour, I think that is why they won't reconstruct this, nor will any of the Tap 9 I'm guessing. They thought the devil couldn't touch them, they are that arrogant, they put their own comfort and inclinations in front of their kids -you can see it even now when they pretend that there's all this new informatoin to find and Maddie's still out there yet they foot drag and dissemble and don't cooperate with the law - what a pair of Me First con artists.
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Re: 3A proud to support www.mccannfiles.com

Postby metodomom » Fri May 09, 2008 5:22 am

Sometimes you get the impression some parents have children for the wrong reason. Its almost like an accessory. I would like one child, preferably boy, I will educate him privately..however, he must not interfere with my social life.

What confuses me Widowan is that when you go on holiday with kids you expect a family holiday. The McCanns utilized the creche during the day......no problem. You work hard, you want a game of tennis, a swim or just time with your partner.
However, evening is the time to be with your kids.
Faith and doubt both are needed - not as antagonists, but working side by side to take us around the unknown curve.
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Re: 3A proud to support www.mccannfiles.com

Postby Amber08 » Wed May 14, 2008 7:32 am

Have just watched the Panorama special again and wow that Gerry takes some believing 3 lessons of tennis on that fatal day!!...back to apartment HE reads a bedtime story.... kids off to sleep like clockwork!? have a glass of wine then off out to the Tapas and on his check he looks at his daughter Maddie and thinks to himself how beautiful she is and lucky he is? really? so that's why you play tennis all day and out all evening but somehow manage this bedtime story (must have been a short boring one to get them off to sleep so quick) and what puzzles me is on that panorama special he crosses the street to chat for a few minutes to a tennis friend before returning to the Tapas...had they not engaged enough for one day? (guess all the tennis pals have been fully quizzed) .... :?
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Re: 3A proud to support www.mccannfiles.com

Postby bjr » Sat May 17, 2008 10:08 am

And another recommendation for Redsquare from madeleinesearch.com

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13038&p=347013#p347013

http://www.mccannfiles.com

An almost encyclopedic and invaluable research tool, this site brings you a vast array of information captured since May 3rd 2007. If there is something you would like to know about the events since Madeleine's disappearance, this site is almost certain to provide the information you need. The sources for all information are made available, allowing you to make up your own mind just how reliable the information is. If you haven't visited this site already, we thoroughly recommend that you do.
To my critics
When I'm in a sober mood, I worry, work and think,
When I'm in a drunken mood, I gamble, play and drink,
But when my moods are over and my time has come to pass,
I hope I'm buried upside down, so the world may kiss my ar*e
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Re: 3A proud to support www.mccannfiles.com

Postby ammo » Tue May 20, 2008 12:17 pm

What was the info surrounding a pic of Madeleine eating a large ice cream? Every-one was saying the pic wasn't accurate and that you can't get icecreams that large.....well I thought the pic looked normal and Ive had icecreams that large. So I can't see why yet another molehill has been made a mountain with this case. And where did the pic first pop up ?
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