MAIN MADELEINE THREAD

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Re: MAIN MADELEINE THREAD

Postby astro » Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:13 pm

Enfys - good points!
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Re: MAIN MADELEINE THREAD

Postby pear » Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:23 pm

HawkEyes1 wrote:
potsy wrote:I dont think murder/manslaughter cases are ever closed....just decline to prosecute at the time...

Time is not the enemy....there are fallings out and people can come forward over time....

You are absolutely right, potsy! Murder and manslaughter cases are never closed completely.



Actually, I think they do, at least in Portugal, but it is something like 20-30 years for homicide and 15-20 for abduction (I've read the timeframe but I can't remember now). A "missing" case is never closed precisely because it is not a "crime" in itself.
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Re: MAIN MADELEINE THREAD

Postby astro » Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:31 pm

Pear, I believe the time frame is 15 or 20 years, depending on the type of crime that is applicable.
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Re: MAIN MADELEINE THREAD

Postby sentinel » Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:25 pm

pear wrote:
HawkEyes1 wrote:
potsy wrote:I dont think murder/manslaughter cases are ever closed....just decline to prosecute at the time...

Time is not the enemy....there are fallings out and people can come forward over time....

You are absolutely right, potsy! Murder and manslaughter cases are never closed completely.



Actually, I think they do, at least in Portugal, but it is something like 20-30 years for homicide and 15-20 for abduction (I've read the timeframe but I can't remember now). A "missing" case is never closed precisely because it is not a "crime" in itself.




so all this talk of shelving the case is complete nonsense??

(since madeleine is certainly, currently a missing person)

or shelving different from not-closing
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Re: MAIN MADELEINE THREAD

Postby enfys » Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:29 pm

Whether 'shelved' or 'closed', I'm not aware in any country I've lived in that a 'cold' case can't be reopened if further significant information comes to light. I'm sure it would be exactly the same in Portugal- can anyone confirm?
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Re: MAIN MADELEINE THREAD

Postby astro » Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:30 pm

sentinel wrote:
so all this talk of shelving the case is complete nonsense??

(since madeleine is certainly, currently a missing person)

or shelving different from not-closing


Sentinel, I am reposting here a comment that I made on another thread, which was a response to someone who was asking about the contents of a piece of footage that showed the #2 of the PJ saying that Mr Ribeiro's words had been misunderstood:

...................

As far as I am aware, it mentions nothing about shelving. Not one way or another. Just that the #2 in the PJ's hierarchy stated it was all a misunderstanding. He didn't want to comment any further, which is why you will notice he repeats the word - mal-entendido - several times throughout the clip.

Nobody in Portugal has explicitly mentioned whether the case is to be shelved or not, that I am aware of.

There have been opinions expressed by analysts, who suggested that the sense of Mr Ribeiro's words was to prepare public opinion for the likely shelving of the process. I think this should be made very clear: Nobody in a position to make such a statement, ever mentioned shelving anything - or not shelving, for that matter.

I have absolutely no idea whether the case will be shelved or not, and absolutely no personal interest or personal agenda to 'fight' for, here, except to try to transmit to you what I have read in the Portuguese press over the last few days. The notion that the case may be headed for archiving is merely the conclusion that some commentators reached, after Alipio Ribeiro made those statements, last weekend. Anything else is pure speculation, as far as I can tell.

.........

IMO, only.
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Re: MAIN MADELEINE THREAD

Postby astro » Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:34 pm

enfys wrote:Whether 'shelved' or 'closed', I'm not aware in any country I've lived in that a 'cold' case can't be reopened if further significant information comes to light. I'm sure it would be exactly the same in Portugal- can anyone confirm?


Have to check for a proper link, but in Portugal crimes do have a time span after which they 'prescribe' - this is the literal translation of the Portuguese term, 'prescrever'. In English I think the adequate expression is 'to lapse'?

Anyway, depending on the type of crime, we are looking at either 15 or 20 years. After that period runs out, the crime lapses.

* off to search for proper link to support the notion *
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Re: MAIN MADELEINE THREAD

Postby enfys » Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:42 pm

Thanks Astro :D

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Re: MAIN MADELEINE THREAD

Postby sentinel » Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:44 pm

astro wrote:
sentinel wrote:
so all this talk of shelving the case is complete nonsense??

(since madeleine is certainly, currently a missing person)

or shelving different from not-closing


Sentinel, I am reposting here a comment that I made on another thread, which was a response to someone who was asking about the contents of a piece of footage that showed the #2 of the PJ saying that Mr Ribeiro's words had been misunderstood:

...................

As far as I am aware, it mentions nothing about shelving. Not one way or another. Just that the #2 in the PJ's hierarchy stated it was all a misunderstanding. He didn't want to comment any further, which is why you will notice he repeats the word - mal-entendido - several times throughout the clip.

Nobody in Portugal has explicitly mentioned whether the case is to be shelved or not, that I am aware of.

There have been opinions expressed by analysts, who suggested that the sense of Mr Ribeiro's words was to prepare public opinion for the likely shelving of the process. I think this should be made very clear: Nobody in a position to make such a statement, ever mentioned shelving anything - or not shelving, for that matter.

I have absolutely no idea whether the case will be shelved or not, and absolutely no personal interest or personal agenda to 'fight' for, here, except to try to transmit to you what I have read in the Portuguese press over the last few days. The notion that the case may be headed for archiving is merely the conclusion that some commentators reached, after Alipio Ribeiro made those statements, last weekend. Anything else is pure speculation, as far as I can tell.

.........

IMO, only.



quite,
when i said "all this talk" i was really meaning
"all the shite coming from clarrie and his sycophants"
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Re: MAIN MADELEINE THREAD

Postby diddy » Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:05 pm

Has there been any reaction from the Mccanns re. this talk of "shelving", as far as we know?

It's just that they should be up in arms about it, really.

Would be interested if they say: that's OK, as long as our arguido/a status is lifted!
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Re: MAIN MADELEINE THREAD

Postby Whatever » Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:18 pm

diddy wrote:Has there been any reaction from the Mccanns re. this talk of "shelving", as far as we know?

It's just that they should be up in arms about it, really.

Would be interested if they say: that's OK, as long as our arguido/a status is lifted!


________

Curiously enough, they're not happy about it. I will try and find the article I read yesterday in which Clarrie was stating that the McC's really don't want the case to be 'shelved'. Well, I suppose they have to be seen to be devastated by the notion that the police are dropping the investigation to a lower priority what with them being so desperate to find Madeleine and all. Privately, I'm sure they're planning a champagne celebration, but they'll never be able to appear to be pleased in public. I think he added something like that, something along the lines of 'of course they'll be relieved to no longer be suspects so that the focus will be back on finding Madeleine and the McCanns hope that the PJ's will work alongside their own investigators to continue the search'.
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Re: MAIN MADELEINE THREAD

Postby kerry » Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:30 pm

Diddy wrote:-

Has there been any reaction from the Mccanns re. this talk of "shelving", as far as we know?

It's just that they should be up in arms about it, really.

Would be interested if they say: that's OK, as long as our arguido/a status is lifted!


They won't be pleased if the case is shelved and their arguidoship is not removed, all that lovely lolly they'ld be missing out on. The USA chat show hosts, I believe, won't entertain them as suspects and the film people want a definite ending, i.e Madeleine either alive or dead. Mind you the Macs have said they want the film to go ahead to raise money to look for Madeleine, but if she's found alive they won't need the money to look for her and if she's found dead they'll have no need of the money anyway. Ah, what a shame!! :D
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Re: MAIN MADELEINE THREAD

Postby cushty » Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:39 pm

I would have thought the notion of shelving a case had more to do with resources than an attitude towards the case

I expect the Portuguese police would still look into any sightings of M in Portugal, if not of Coopermen - but would do nothing more unless a new piece of evidence comes to light, or new witnesses

I've never quite understood what the searching for Maddie was supposed to consist of anyway - apart from the initial searching on the ground, what does it mean - and why does it require a small fortune to do it?

it's a bit like the NSPCA telling us they need money to make child abuse stop - it isn't logical
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Re: MAIN MADELEINE THREAD

Postby fedrules » Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:03 pm

I seem to remember that the McCanns say they don't want the case shelved,but want their 'arguido' status to be lifted so they can work with the PJ to find Maddie.
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Re: MAIN MADELEINE THREAD

Postby diddy » Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:31 pm

Kerry & Whatever.
Hi!
It is perhaps just a play on words, but my understanding of "shelved" is that it gets put away as it is, and perhaps looked at again from time to time, or not until new evidence comes in.
I would expect this not to be good (for them) as nothing is solved, and they still have their status.

If it's closed, then I would expect their status to be lifted due to lack of evidence.
(I assume if it's closed soon, that's because there's not enough evidence for a trial).
But, still no resolution, although no more suspect status.
But, also doesn't exactly clear them, as it means there is not enough evidence, not that there is none.
But of course, I doubt it would be portrayed that way by the media.
But then if they came out all jubilant, you'd wonde why as Madeleine is still missing, and no one has been "caught" for it.

But in some ways, if it was going to be closed in that way, I would have thought it would have been done before now.

I guess it's still a case of wait and see.
It has been quiet lately.
Although I haven't been searching for news, so if it hasn't been front pagr, I may not have seen it.
The charade must go on.
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