MAIN MADELEINE THREAD MK III

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MAIN MADELEINE THREAD MK III

Postby bjr » Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:46 pm

Please continue here I will copy the last two posts from the other thread.
To my critics
When I'm in a sober mood, I worry, work and think,
When I'm in a drunken mood, I gamble, play and drink,
But when my moods are over and my time has come to pass,
I hope I'm buried upside down, so the world may kiss my ar*e
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Re: MAIN MADELEINE THREAD MK III

Postby Meadow » Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:47 pm

I think I might be rightfully the owner of the crown, the Queen of the woke and wandered theory.

I followed this very closely in the early days, when Madeleine disappeared, I kept information & links, particularly any snippet of the McCann's that gave a clue to where she slept, how she slept and what they saw.

One thing I found most astonishing was the ''other'' single bed under the window. May be Madeleine could have climbed on it an played with the windows, the mechanism of the shutters - who knows.

Then we had the Cuddle cat - placed where she could not reach etc etc.

As much as I could see that Madeleine who was a few days off her 4th Birthday could have walked off through the door of an unlocked apartment, negotiated the stair gate & bottom gate. My mind was finally put at rest, when Jane Tanner put her neck on the line in the description of sketchman and the t.v. footage supporting her statement.

Until her statement is challenged, neither the woke and wander theory holds water or the cadaver dogs suggesting Madeleine had died in the apartment. There is nothing either in Jane Tanners description that would offer hope that the child was alive, IMHO - the drawings portrays a death

Although one has to be frank to say, what Jane Tanner describes, that is she saw a man with a child fitting the description of Madeleine, in the presence of her father whilst talking to JW, far fetched, it has to be challenged and excluded.

Nothing to this case makes sense, until Jane Tanner statement is removed from the case. She remains the alibi to the events of that night.
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Re: MAIN MADELEINE THREAD MK III

Postby twiglet1963 » Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:48 pm

I'm just watching Whistleblower on BBC. Programme is about childcare but part of it involves holiday childcare. A chilling tale of a child at a Mark Warner resort in Egypt who woke and wandered from their apartment, climbed a wall and wandered around the resort. :?
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Re: MAIN MADELEINE THREAD MK III

Postby twiglet1963 » Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:58 pm

Just before I posted the previous post, I posted this. Copied here in case Whatever wants to follow up.

Whatever wrote:
A child 'with a sense of danger' might assume a stairgate was locked and could attempt to climb over it. At some point during the climb, an open stairgate would swing open and cause major confusion.


But they're also designed to prevent climbing: too tall and with no footholds around them. The first attempt to climb would generally push it open or it would swing back before they'd gained any height. I don't know if the stairgate makes any appearances on Panorama but if you're installing at the top of a flight of stairs you'd want it swinging back to stop a child pushing and falling through an unlocked gate. But it may have been installed by a moron and unchecked by the child-friendly Mark Warner and open on the night.

It's asking for an incredible degree of ingenuity and determination of Madeleine to want to venture out, to succeed, to negotiate two gates, to take the wrong turning and then to have the astonishing misfortune to happen upon a paedophile on holiday, with a car, or a nomadic gypsy child trafficker. I know it's now routine to think of the McCanns as the pinnacle of negligence but it asks for a superhuman degree of stupidity and disinterest to leave a child in an unlocked apartment, with an unlocked stairgate and an unlocked street gate.

Someone mentioned wishful thinking earlier.
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Re: MAIN MADELEINE THREAD MK III

Postby Dreyfus » Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:04 pm

Anyone convinced of the parents' involvement in Madeleine's disappearance is asking us to believe that although the McCanns found themselves in a sleepy seaside town in Portugal, where the police were inexperienced and possibly inept at dealing with missing children, they deliberately chose the high risk strategy of publicising Madeleine's disappearance to the world: dragging in celebrities such as David Beckham, JK Rowling and the Pope as a smokescreen to cover up their involvement in Madeleine's death.

Although the McCanns could have quietly hidden behind the local police's incompetence as an excuse for the failure to find their daughter, they chose instead to antagonise the local law officials, publishing pictures of her against the PJ's wishes and flying across Europe and North Africa, publicising a fake campaign to hide their guilt. How clever!

Then, when the PJ got wise to the McCanns' guilt with the help of the British police dogs Eddie and Keela - an account of which was publicised in Sol on 3rd August - instead of coming home to Britian, the McCanns slyly remained in Portugal for a further 5 weeks, waiting just until formal interviews had resulted in them being labelled "arguidos" before making their getaway to the UK!!! What a cunning plan!!!!

I actually believed what I had read in Sol. Until the contradictory reports in the Portuguese press made me start to wonder whether I had been gullible and had fallen hook line and sinker for a lot of sloppy journalism.
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Re: MAIN MADELEINE THREAD MK III

Postby cushty » Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:10 pm

I doubt whether Gerry and Kate directly asked any of their celebrity backers to lend a hand

that would have been done by friends, family and hired hands - that is what happens when a ball starts rolling - it swiftly gains a momentum all its own
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Re: MAIN MADELEINE THREAD MK III

Postby twiglet1963 » Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:14 pm

Dreyfus wrote:Anyone convinced of the parents' involvement in Madeleine's disappearance is asking us to believe that although the McCanns found themselves in a sleepy seaside town in Portugal, where the police were inexperienced and possibly inept at dealing with missing children, they deliberately chose the high risk strategy of publicising Madeleine's disappearance to the world: dragging in celebrities such as David Beckham, JK Rowling and the Pope as a smokescreen to cover up their involvement in Madeleine's death.

Although the McCanns could have quietly hidden behind the local police's incompetence as an excuse for the failure to find their daughter, they chose instead to antagonise the local law officials, publishing pictures of her against the PJ's wishes and flying across Europe and North Africa, publicising a fake campaign to hide their guilt. How clever!

Then, when the PJ got wise to the McCanns' guilt with the help of the British police dogs Eddie and Keela - an account of which was publicised in Sol on 3rd August - instead of coming home to Britian, the McCanns slyly remained in Portugal for a further 5 weeks, waiting just until formal interviews had resulted in them being labelled "arguidos" before making their getaway to the UK!!! What a cunning plan!!!!

I actually believed what I had read in Sol. Until the contradictory reports in the Portuguese press made me start to wonder whether I had been gullible and had fallen hook line and sinker for a lot of sloppy journalism.


I think the issue would be over whether "they deliberately chose". Jon Corner's video to the BBC was, as far as I know, not asked for. Gerry is quoted as being stunned at coming out of the police station the first time they were questioned and finding the press pack there. How long before the "vision". Paradoxically, more convincing is the speed with which the domain name was registered and the fund set up. But even that I have seen reported as more of a reaction to unprompted donations. Isn't that on the Esther thread? I'm not sure they deliberately chose. What makes you say that?
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Re: MAIN MADELEINE THREAD MK III

Postby lincoln green » Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:18 pm

cushty wrote:I doubt whether Gerry and Kate directly asked any of their celebrity backers to lend a hand

that would have been done by friends, family and hired hands - that is what happens when a ball starts rolling - it swiftly gains a momentum all its own


It's fairly basic missing child fodder isn't it?
The favourite footballer/singer/actor of the poor mite is requested to appeal for their safe return.
In fact, it would probably look odder if they weren't asked to say a few words.

I get the impression that while Gerry is a delegator, his family are do-ers.
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Re: MAIN MADELEINE THREAD MK III

Postby Dreyfus » Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:27 pm

We have at least 2 examples of people assuming Madeleine had woken and wandered :-

Firstly, the first police officer on the scene, referred to in Panorama: <<She (neighbour of the McCanns) also says that she heard the first Portuguese policeman arrive and he said: "She must have walked out because there's no sign of a break in." >>

Secondly, Alex Woolfall, the PR guru sent over to protect Mark Warner's image from day one:
<<The couple swung between uncontrollable distress and a determination to do what was needed to help to find Madeleine. They gave no indication that they thought she had been snatched, let alone by a paedophile. Their early assumption was that she had wandered off and had an accident or been taken in by a well-meaning stranger.>>

So people on the ground at the time suggesting Madeleine had wandered off weren't derided and scorned at the time by stories of stairgates and the official timing of sunset in Praia de Luz.

Twiglet, where is the definitive proof that Madeleine is dead? How did the McCanns and Co. get rid of the body without anyone noticing?
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Re: MAIN MADELEINE THREAD MK III

Postby benidicta » Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:31 pm

dont see any appeals from footballers etc for shannon :(
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THEY JUST CANT HELP THEMSELVES
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Re: MAIN MADELEINE THREAD MK III

Postby lincoln green » Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:33 pm

benidicta wrote:dont see any appeals from footballers etc for shannon :(


Leona Lewis - apparently favourite singer - has done an appeal.
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Re: MAIN MADELEINE THREAD MK III

Postby cushty » Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:34 pm

benidicta wrote:dont see any appeals from footballers etc for shannon :(



I know - and there are two premier league teams in Manchester - but the Mitchell's have no access to the movers and shakers of this world
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Re: MAIN MADELEINE THREAD MK III

Postby Whatever » Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:35 pm

Image

Assuming this link works I'm imagining the babygate as something along these lines. I can imagine a child having a dreadful accident with one especially if it was installed by a moron and opened outwards. If the gate was left open, but appeared to be closed, the child could end up pushing hard, falling urgently foward and tumbling all the way down those lousy steps, sustaining life-threatening injuries, even if she didn't attempt to climb over it. Kates reference to Madeleine having 'a sense of danger' has always troubled me. It could have been one of their pre-prepared fall-back positions were it necessary to defend against a suggestion that Madeleine may have fallen 'through' open stairgate. 'NO no....she wouldn't have done that - she had a sense of danger'.
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Re: MAIN MADELEINE THREAD MK III

Postby nicked » Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:38 pm

quote Poppy from previous thread

A small for her age, 3 year old child, MIGHT be capable of opening patio doors to find her parents. But NO WAY would a child that age, have the inclination to then close them. She would have been frightened of the consequences of what she was doing and would CERTAINLY leave those doors open for a hasty retreat back.


Absolutely.
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Re: MAIN MADELEINE THREAD MK III

Postby nicked » Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:39 pm

Whatever wrote:Image

Assuming this link works I'm imagining the babygate as something along these lines. I can imagine a child having a dreadful accident with one especially if it was installed by a moron and opened outwards. If the gate was left open, but appeared to be closed, the child could end up pushing hard, falling urgently foward and tumbling all the way down those lousy steps, sustaining life-threatening injuries, even if she didn't attempt to climb over it. Kates reference to Madeleine having 'a sense of danger' has always troubled me. It could have been one of their pre-prepared fall-back positions were it necessary to defend against a suggestion that Madeleine may have fallen 'through' open stairgate. 'NO no....she wouldn't have done that - she had a sense of danger'.



In my experience baby gates open both ways ie the gate part is on a safety hinge that swings forwards and backwards. Is that clear, I cant tell... what I want to say is that you can either pull the gate towards you to open it or push it away from you.
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