UK Fuel Price Protest!

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Re: UK Fuel Price Protest!

Postby Montgomery Burns » Tue May 27, 2008 8:50 pm

bugalugs1970 wrote:
Montgomery Burns wrote:I'm all for higher prices; the sooner some of the lower orders are priced off the road the better as this will leave more space for higher-rate taxpayers like myself.

Anyone caught driving without tax, insurance and MOT should have their car crushed, preferably with them still in it.........AGREE

That should create a bit more flexibility in the system.




You tw*t........


MODS - Please remove the personal abusive comment above and warn the poster re T & C's.
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Re: UK Fuel Price Protest!

Postby bugalugs1970 » Tue May 27, 2008 9:01 pm

Montgomery Burns wrote:
bugalugs1970 wrote:
Montgomery Burns wrote:I'm all for higher prices; the sooner some of the lower orders are priced off the road the better as this will leave more space for higher-rate taxpayers like myself.

Anyone caught driving without tax, insurance and MOT should have their car crushed, preferably with them still in it.........AGREE

That should create a bit more flexibility in the system.




You tw*t........


MODS - Please remove the personal abusive comment above and warn the poster re T & C's.


Perhaps you should stop being so elitist.........if you have such a high income the least you could afford is some manners for those less fortunate.

MODS I APOLOGISE for using the word tw*t........i shall endeavour to find a suitable alternative.
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Re: UK Fuel Price Protest!

Postby The Pink Panther » Tue May 27, 2008 9:01 pm

the_last_name_left wrote:
ponky wrote:Will you be flying off on your hols then?
Or maybe motoring to some far flung part of the British Isles?
I know that wasn't the intent of your post, and no one more than me loves to see jet fighters scream above in our defence.

Vulcan bomber, God speed you home! Use all the fuel you need , beautiful lady!!


No I won't be flying anywhere. No, I won't be motoring to "far-flung parts of uk". So what?

And auto-eroticism is just a little weird, don't you think?

And you haven't addressed any of the issues at all.

lunalovegod wrote:we have all buried our heads in the sand and are looking for this usless bunch of twats we have elected to sort it out...


But NOBODY can "sort it out" - least of all anyone in hoc to "business as usual".

There really isn't any solution - other than fundamental CHANGE.

pinkpanther wrote:Like I said why should the motorist subsidise everyone else.


ARTIC ICE Feb 1986 TOTAL AREA 12.5million Sq Km, Feb 2006 12.3million Sq Km
ANTARTIC Aug 1986 TOTAL AREA 13.4million Sq Km Aug 2006 14.5 million Sq km

Source for above figures: US National Snow and Ice Data Centre

THAT MAKES IT A NET INCREASE OF 900,000 Sq kilometers of polar ice.

So over this 20 year time slot one Ice Cap decreased in size by 1.6% while the other ice cap increased in size by 8.2%.


What has that got to do with the issue? The point is OIL is LIMITED RESOURCE. Nothing changes that, and nothing you say addresses the issues in the least.

Motorists do NOT pay the real cost of motoring. But anyway - what difference does it make? If you want to reduce tax on motoring, it will have to rise somewhere else. You want to reduce hospital beds, nurses, teachers just so you can fly and drive wherever you like?


What it has to do with anything is that Global warming is a myth used to tax the motorist off the road, and when that happens, where will they get the lost revenue from then.
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Re: UK Fuel Price Protest!

Postby Montgomery Burns » Tue May 27, 2008 9:04 pm

bugalugs1970 wrote:
Montgomery Burns wrote:
bugalugs1970 wrote:
Montgomery Burns wrote:I'm all for higher prices; the sooner some of the lower orders are priced off the road the better as this will leave more space for higher-rate taxpayers like myself.

Anyone caught driving without tax, insurance and MOT should have their car crushed, preferably with them still in it.........AGREE

That should create a bit more flexibility in the system.




You tw*t........


MODS - Please remove the personal abusive comment above and warn the poster re T & C's.


Perhaps you should stop being so elitist.........if you have such a high income the least you could afford is some manners for those less fortunate.

MODS I APOLOGISE for using the word tw*t........i shall endeavour to find a suitable alternative.


It would have been nicer and more genuine had the apology had been given to me, but it should be enough to stop you being told off by them.

By the way, if you understood the concept of irony you wouldn't have jumped in with both feet.
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Re: UK Fuel Price Protest!

Postby bugalugs1970 » Tue May 27, 2008 9:15 pm

Montgomery Burns wrote:
bugalugs1970 wrote:
Montgomery Burns wrote:
bugalugs1970 wrote:
Montgomery Burns wrote:I'm all for higher prices; the sooner some of the lower orders are priced off the road the better as this will leave more space for higher-rate taxpayers like myself.

Anyone caught driving without tax, insurance and MOT should have their car crushed, preferably with them still in it.........AGREE

That should create a bit more flexibility in the system.




You tw*t........


MODS - Please remove the personal abusive comment above and warn the poster re T & C's.


Perhaps you should stop being so elitist.........if you have such a high income the least you could afford is some manners for those less fortunate.

MODS I APOLOGISE for using the word tw*t........i shall endeavour to find a suitable alternative.


It would have been nicer and more genuine had the apology had been given to me, but it should be enough to stop you being told off by them.

By the way, if you understood the concept of irony you wouldn't have jumped in with both feet.



Oh i understand the concept of irony well.......your post shows not the slightest tone of it.......

Irony would be " a supermodel with an eating disorder" they would be slowly killing themselves in order to make a living..........

I apologised for using the word tw*t..... :wink:
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Re: UK Fuel Price Protest!

Postby ponky » Tue May 27, 2008 9:21 pm

the_last_name_left wrote:
Why should the motorist subsidise everyone else.


Who pays me for driving through my environment?? I LOATHE traffic.

Why must I subsidise schools when I have no children? Why must I subsidise the army? The nuclear industry? The aircraft industry? The nuclear industry?

If you want to open that question, be my guest. But motoring is subsidised, really. Who pays for the pollution? Motorists don't. Motorists just drive away from their pollution.......never paying for it.

I've worked as a truck-driver btw, and I adore driving too. But so what?

I used to drive a lorry into london every day - delivering ice cubes!!!! Tell me that makes sense? lol

They SHOULD go out of business imo. Freight should be on the railway. New roads cost how many million a mile? How many people have got cars now? I live in one of the least populated parts of the country atm, and even here, the roads are reaching absolute peak capacity - gridlock can't be far away.

All the roads are full of parked cars - there is no space in our street for anyone else to park a car. Ever been to Brighton? You can't park anywhere.......

When exactly are people going to CHANGE behaviour? I don't like it anymore than the next person - but tough xxxx, isn't it?

The oil we have must be used to develop alternatives - or else we really are in deep doo-doo. Sod the truckers! Why should they have a special interest?

Of course everything gets more expensive as fuel prices go up.......tell me what the solution is? Is there one? No. It's going to take structural change. The party is over, if it ever began for many of us. Trucks are ridiculous in so many ways. I used to use £100 fuel a day delivering ice cubes!! Ridiculous.

Consider farming: industrial (oil based) farming gains yields 25 times that of non-oil based farming. PEsticide and herbicide are made from oil. fertiliser takes oil. Planting takes oil. Harvesting takes oil. Delivery to market takes oil. Packaging takes oil. And the truckers are worried!!?? What about people starving to death TODAY???? people are ALREADY starving to death everyday - and I'm supposed to be concerned about truckers!!!??

1g of microwave chips takes 650g of fuel to produce - apparently. Every cow raised uses enough fuel to drive once across USA.

Truckers are the very least of our problems. 2p is nothing. The problem is much more serious.

I answered your post in detail, but lost it. too tired to repeat as I don't have the luxury of an employer to bolster me!
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Re: UK Fuel Price Protest!

Postby Montgomery Burns » Tue May 27, 2008 9:23 pm

bugalugs1970 wrote:
Montgomery Burns wrote:
bugalugs1970 wrote:
Montgomery Burns wrote:
bugalugs1970 wrote:
Montgomery Burns wrote:I'm all for higher prices; the sooner some of the lower orders are priced off the road the better as this will leave more space for higher-rate taxpayers like myself.

Anyone caught driving without tax, insurance and MOT should have their car crushed, preferably with them still in it.........AGREE

That should create a bit more flexibility in the system.




You tw*t........


MODS - Please remove the personal abusive comment above and warn the poster re T & C's.


Perhaps you should stop being so elitist.........if you have such a high income the least you could afford is some manners for those less fortunate.

MODS I APOLOGISE for using the word tw*t........i shall endeavour to find a suitable alternative.


It would have been nicer and more genuine had the apology had been given to me, but it should be enough to stop you being told off by them.

By the way, if you understood the concept of irony you wouldn't have jumped in with both feet.



Oh i understand the concept of irony well.......your post shows not the slightest tone of it.......

Irony would be " a supermodel with an eating disorder" they would be slowly killing themselves in order to make a living..........

I apologised for using the word tw*t..... :wink:


Really? I think it would be exactly the sort of thing Montgomery Burns would say. Straight over your head though! I'll put a smiley on next time to make it obvious for you.
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Re: UK Fuel Price Protest!

Postby bugalugs1970 » Tue May 27, 2008 9:31 pm

Montgomery Burns wrote:


Really? I think it would be exactly the sort of thing Montgomery Burns would say. Straight over your head though! I'll put a smiley on next time to make it obvious for you.



Not a simpsons fan thankfully..... :lol:
Insult stands even firmer now.........Montgomery :wink:

Seriously though Sorry....no hard feelings i hope....genuinely made no connection with Montgomery Burns thingy my 17 year old daughter just told me.
I'm on the payroll........WHAT...you didn't know!!!!!!
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Re: UK Fuel Price Protest!

Postby ponky » Tue May 27, 2008 9:37 pm

the_last_name_left wrote:
ponky wrote:Will you be flying off on your hols then?
Or maybe motoring to some far flung part of the British Isles?
I know that wasn't the intent of your post, and no one more than me loves to see jet fighters scream above in our defence.

Vulcan bomber, God speed you home! Use all the fuel you need , beautiful lady!!


No I won't be flying anywhere. No, I won't be motoring to "far-flung parts of uk". So what?

And auto-eroticism is just a little weird, don't you think?

And you haven't addressed any of the issues at all.

lunalovegod wrote:we have all buried our heads in the sand and are looking for this usless bunch of twats we have elected to sort it out...


But NOBODY can "sort it out" - least of all anyone in hoc to "business as usual".

There really isn't any solution - other than fundamental CHANGE.

pinkpanther wrote:Like I said why should the motorist subsidise everyone else.


ARTIC ICE Feb 1986 TOTAL AREA 12.5million Sq Km, Feb 2006 12.3million Sq Km
ANTARTIC Aug 1986 TOTAL AREA 13.4million Sq Km Aug 2006 14.5 million Sq km

Source for above figures: US National Snow and Ice Data Centre

THAT MAKES IT A NET INCREASE OF 900,000 Sq kilometers of polar ice.

So over this 20 year time slot one Ice Cap decreased in size by 1.6% while the other ice cap increased in size by 8.2%.


What has that got to do with the issue? The point is OIL is LIMITED RESOURCE. Nothing changes that, and nothing you say addresses the issues in the least.

Motorists do NOT pay the real cost of motoring. But anyway - what difference does it make? If you want to reduce tax on motoring, it will have to rise somewhere else. You want to reduce hospital beds, nurses, teachers just so you can fly and drive wherever you like?

So did you choose not to read my post on how fuel increases affect employment or just not comment on it?
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Re: UK Fuel Price Protest!

Postby ponky » Tue May 27, 2008 9:48 pm

MoeSzyslak wrote:Hybrid cars are the only thing I can think of as a compromise on saving money on rising fuel costs.
But, then who can afford to buy a new car?
I sure can't.
Would love one though.

Dont buy a new car Mo. As soon as you drive your new car down the ramp from the dealer,you are thousands down!! Least of all VAT.
Buy one 12 to 18mths old. Any teething probs. solved and depreciation minimalised.
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Re: UK Fuel Price Protest!

Postby the_last_name_left » Wed May 28, 2008 1:20 am

ponky wrote:So did you choose not to read my post on how fuel increases affect employment or just not comment on it?


I read your post.

I didn't comment on the specifics because they are so specific. Of course high fuel prices have bad effects. But it isn't just about relative levels of taxation ie whether it is 2p or 50p fuel duty reduction, it isn't going to make any difference in the broader picture. Of course it will make life easier next week, for us/you - but it also means that sometime in the future its going to be even harder. I think it misses the point to complain about the things one will miss, the things one "deserves"........

And IMO striking to lower the tax on petrol totally misses the point. Really, what good can it do?

I'm all for people organising - but it has to be for the right things.

I have sympathy for truckers - but I think they're missing the point. Completely.

The situation you (ponky) are talking about for your employees and yourself is one that faces every single person on earth, in some form. It's the same situation facing everyone - so your example applies right across the globe.

But it isn't the only example available, is it? Everybody is in a different situation - but it's the same: nobody much is going to gain from energy crises; everybody risks losing everything, at worst.

We have to acknowledge there are ALREADY children starving to death every day - so what makes your employees so special by comparison? Of course they're special - but I don't understand why they deserve special treatment.

I can ask why it is that "we" allow children to starve to death today whilst saying hauliers should get special treatment. Are their children starving to death already?

And whilst I am supposed to be sympathetic to ponky's employees, what of starving children today? Why should hauliers get that 2p? I ask the same question of everyone too - what makes them so special that the world mustn't let them go out of business, let alone starve to death? We already allow it - just out of sight.

And the UK tax payer is paying "our boys" to kill people. How much a litre does that add to the cost? 1p? 5p? 10p? 50p? More? Does anyone really know?

Then there's Trident. 2p? 10p? Who knows?

And Afghanistan. 5p? Who knows?

There's Iraq. (wmds ready to fire in 45 mins!, remember) How much a litre has that cost? How could it possibly be calculated? Regardless of the exact cost it must nevertheless be paid. No matter what the cost, apparently. And all or what, exactly? 2p? 5p? 10p?

Iraqi oil is still in the ground. And its about the world's best, and cheapest to extract - war aside. And its value has doubled in the last 12-18 months?

This is from Brookings, US

May 12, 2003 - Now that Iraq's oil has been secured by coalition forces and hopefully will soon be brought back on stream, it is time to solve a potentially important mystery: how much Iraqi oil is actually there?
.......
The respected Petroleum Economist Magazine estimates that there may be as many as 200 bbl of oil in Iraq; the Federation of American Scientists estimates 215 bbl; a study by the Council on Foreign Relations and the James A. Baker III Institute at Rice University claimed that Iraq has 220 bbl of undiscovered oil; and another study by the Center for Global Energy Studies and Petrolog & Associates offered an even more optimistic estimate of 300 bbl'a number that would give Iraq reserves greater even than those of Saudi Arabia. In a Guardian interview before the war, Taha Hmud Moussa, Saddam's deputy oil minister, said that all of Iraq's oil reserves "will exceed 300bbl when all Iraq's regions are explored

If true, this would mean that Iraq has roughly a quarter of all of the world's oil. These assessments have been repeatedly cited in news articles, conferences, think tank briefings, congressional testimonies, and academic works because they raise the prospect that America's energy security could significantly improve if Iraq were able to challenge Saudi Arabia's position as the world's preeminent oil producer.


At today's prices, I make that 130*250bbl

US$ 32,500,000,000,000

32.5 trillion dollars. And people are on about 2p! :)

WMDs United - 0
Oil Barrel Rovers - 250,000,000,000

/rant. ;)
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Re: UK Fuel Price Protest!

Postby the_last_name_left » Wed May 28, 2008 5:53 am

The cost of cleaning-up the UK's ageing nuclear facilities, including some described as "dangerous", looks set to rise above £73bn, the BBC has learned.
........
Nineteen sites across the country, some dating from the 1950s, are due to be dismantled in the coming decades.
........
In January, the National Audit Office said that the cost of decommissioning ageing power sites had risen from £12bn to £73bn.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7421879.stm

Image
A new generation of nuclear power stations in the UK has been given formal backing by the government.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7179579.stm
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Re: UK Fuel Price Protest!

Postby Montgomery Burns » Wed May 28, 2008 8:50 am

bugalugs1970 wrote:
Montgomery Burns wrote:


Really? I think it would be exactly the sort of thing Montgomery Burns would say. Straight over your head though! I'll put a smiley on next time to make it obvious for you.



Not a simpsons fan thankfully..... :lol:
Insult stands even firmer now.........Montgomery :wink:

Seriously though Sorry....no hard feelings i hope....genuinely made no connection with Montgomery Burns thingy my 17 year old daughter just told me.


Of course no hard feelings, misunderstanding cleared up.
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Re: UK Fuel Price Protest!

Postby bugalugs1970 » Wed May 28, 2008 11:14 am

Montgomery Burns wrote:
bugalugs1970 wrote:
Montgomery Burns wrote:


Really? I think it would be exactly the sort of thing Montgomery Burns would say. Straight over your head though! I'll put a smiley on next time to make it obvious for you.



Not a simpsons fan thankfully..... :lol:
Insult stands even firmer now.........Montgomery :wink:

Seriously though Sorry....no hard feelings i hope....genuinely made no connection with Montgomery Burns thingy my 17 year old daughter just told me.


Of course no hard feelings, misunderstanding cleared up.


Thank you Sir...... :wink:
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Re: UK Fuel Price Protest!

Postby Scarlett » Wed May 28, 2008 2:58 pm

the_last_name_left wrote:
Absolutely..Nobody has an issue with this, the issue is the tax that the government is heaping on top of the price of fuel.

The UK pay more than double what the US pays for the equivalant amount because of government taxation..

Good on the truckers!


But that's just taking out of one pocket, and putting it in the other - nothing changes.

If the exchequer loses tax on fuel, it will HAVE to come from somewhere else. Or spending must be cut, and/or public borrowing increased.

Sure UK prices are higher than most anywhere else - but what is the income tax in France? higher. What is the beer duty in Sweden? Much higher. Etc etc etc

This isn't an issue which is going to go away - not an issue that 2p duty ios going to make a change to. It's a fundamental of industrial modern life that is about to change - complaining about 2p duty really doesn't address the underlying issue.

Instead of the 2p duty, why not get out of Iraq and Afghan? Why not scrap our nuclear subs? why not refuse to renew trident?

People who supported war for lies in Iraq have to take some responsibility too. We, the opponents of the war, warned of this situation - and we were called TRAITORS. Oh well.......

I was opposed to both wars and went to the marches. Pulling out of Iraq and Afghanistan is not going to solve the problem. We will still pay high tax's and the people of those countries suffer long term..
Though I don't believe a word of the story that the US and UK will re-build these countries. :roll:

Back to Britain! Heavy taxes on cigarettes, alcohol and non-essential luxuries.
The price of oil and its impact on the cost of everyday basics, is crippling the elderly and low income families and it is set to get worse.

The small hauliers are not the only group of people to be effected but they are the only group to speak out. The rest grumble behind closed doors.

When I moved into this house 8 years ago, it cost me £73 to fill the oil tank (900 litres) now I couldn't fill it for under £1000.
What about the elderly whose only form of heating is oil? What about the elderly or low income families who are trying to survive with the escalating price of food. As Britain is a democracy these groups of people have a choice and that choice is heat or food.

Britain used to be the country of the great complainers and protesters. We have become increasingly apathetic. We seem to have forgotten the suffragettes, Greenham common and poll tax riots.

For a so called socialised nation we have become increasingly more materialistic and capitalistic, we have lost sight of what is really important.
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