UK Fuel Price Protest!

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Re: UK Fuel Price Protest!

Postby the_last_name_left » Tue May 27, 2008 5:55 pm

Absolutely..Nobody has an issue with this, the issue is the tax that the government is heaping on top of the price of fuel.

The UK pay more than double what the US pays for the equivalant amount because of government taxation..

Good on the truckers!


But that's just taking out of one pocket, and putting it in the other - nothing changes.

If the exchequer loses tax on fuel, it will HAVE to come from somewhere else. Or spending must be cut, and/or public borrowing increased.

Sure UK prices are higher than most anywhere else - but what is the income tax in France? higher. What is the beer duty in Sweden? Much higher. Etc etc etc

This isn't an issue which is going to go away - not an issue that 2p duty ios going to make a change to. It's a fundamental of industrial modern life that is about to change - complaining about 2p duty really doesn't address the underlying issue.

Instead of the 2p duty, why not get out of Iraq and Afghan? Why not scrap our nuclear subs? why not refuse to renew trident?

People who supported war for lies in Iraq have to take some responsibility too. We, the opponents of the war, warned of this situation - and we were called TRAITORS. Oh well.......
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Re: UK Fuel Price Protest!

Postby ponky » Tue May 27, 2008 6:19 pm

lunalovegood wrote:we are ALL affected buy higher fuel prices, me included. We awere alos thinking of retiring to the country, but niw will not be able to .We just have to get real - there has been an oasis of prosperity when we've all just consumed - now we are all going to have to get used to not consuming - just like most of the world in fact, that never had the chance to get on the gravy train. And it is up to us all to HELP those who will be suffering most - eg the elderly and disabled, - sharing lifts with elderly neighbours - maybe even, shock, horror, LIVING with our elderly relatives, which we have gotten out of the habit of - but life IS going to change, and we had better start making plans for it.

Erh shock , horror as you say. I am the elderly relative, and maybee your employer.!!!!!!!?

Shock horror!!!
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Re: UK Fuel Price Protest!

Postby The Pink Panther » Tue May 27, 2008 6:21 pm

the_last_name_left wrote:
Absolutely..Nobody has an issue with this, the issue is the tax that the government is heaping on top of the price of fuel.

The UK pay more than double what the US pays for the equivalant amount because of government taxation..

Good on the truckers!


But that's just taking out of one pocket, and putting it in the other - nothing changes.

If the exchequer loses tax on fuel, it will HAVE to come from somewhere else. Or spending must be cut, and/or public borrowing increased.

Sure UK prices are higher than most anywhere else - but what is the income tax in France? higher. What is the beer duty in Sweden? Much higher. Etc etc etc

This isn't an issue which is going to go away - not an issue that 2p duty ios going to make a change to. It's a fundamental of industrial modern life that is about to change - complaining about 2p duty really doesn't address the underlying issue.

Instead of the 2p duty, why not get out of Iraq and Afghan? Why not scrap our nuclear subs? why not refuse to renew trident?

People who supported war for lies in Iraq have to take some responsibility too. We, the opponents of the war, warned of this situation - and we were called TRAITORS. Oh well.......


Why should the motorist subsidise everyone else.
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Re: UK Fuel Price Protest!

Postby the_last_name_left » Tue May 27, 2008 6:24 pm

The most efficient creature on the planet

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The least efficient:

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Re: UK Fuel Price Protest!

Postby bugalugs1970 » Tue May 27, 2008 6:36 pm

ponky wrote:
lunalovegood wrote:completely pointless - we ALL need to restrict our use of fuel - peak oil has passed so its just tough - get used to using less.
lunalovegood wrote:How can hauliers restrict the use of fuel Luna? Even if all private motorists do their bit, food and most consumer goods are still road transported. The dream of transporting by rail died in the days of Dr.Beaching. All fuel price rises are passed on to the consumer.
I live 2 1/2 miles from the nearest corner shop/P.O, 5 miles town. When daughter was at school, 5miles to train station, 16 miles to school on train. Train fares increase in line with diesel costs.

Would you wish all us country dwellers to be herded into cities so we'd walk, bus ,tube everywhere?

Maybe, but I've earned the right to live my countryside existence.

20 yrs ago, When we lived in town, I had to hide the car keys to prevent the baliffs taking it. 20 yrs later after taking huge risks building a business and many tears later we are here.
We employ a fair number of staff, all young, such is the nature of the business. Some have to travel. They stay with us, as they earn a decent salary and enjoy the camaradarie of working with us and their colleagues.

As fuel prices increase, they will need a raise to fill their car. To afford the raise, we need to increase price to the consumer.
The raw product also costs more due to fuel increase.

The consumer meanwhile is feeling the pinch too, for reasons as above, and so less custom.

So what to do?

We could pack up, sell up, and toil the rest of our years away growing cabbages and potatoes, they'll soon be classed as luxury goods anyway.

So then what becomes of our marvellous young staff?
They all have mortgages or rent to pay. Lots have children in local nurseries (remove the children, another business down the pan).

So the two oldies, husband and me survive. For now.
When we are both admitted to care homes, we'll lose everything we worked for when the house is sold, to pay for our care anyway.

In the meantime, all the lovely, vibrant young people working with us have defaulted on their mortgages, rent or loans, who knows?

So one fuel increase too many, could bring about the chain of events as described.

Oh just an afterthought. You may feel you're sitting pretty Luna, only having tube or bus fare, basic food to buy. Read again through my nightmare scenario and you could be one of our young employees.



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Re: UK Fuel Price Protest!

Postby the_last_name_left » Tue May 27, 2008 6:37 pm

Why should the motorist subsidise everyone else.


Who pays me for driving through my environment?? I LOATHE traffic.

Why must I subsidise schools when I have no children? Why must I subsidise the army? The nuclear industry? The aircraft industry? The nuclear industry?

If you want to open that question, be my guest. But motoring is subsidised, really. Who pays for the pollution? Motorists don't. Motorists just drive away from their pollution.......never paying for it.

I've worked as a truck-driver btw, and I adore driving too. But so what?

I used to drive a lorry into london every day - delivering ice cubes!!!! Tell me that makes sense? lol

They SHOULD go out of business imo. Freight should be on the railway. New roads cost how many million a mile? How many people have got cars now? I live in one of the least populated parts of the country atm, and even here, the roads are reaching absolute peak capacity - gridlock can't be far away.

All the roads are full of parked cars - there is no space in our street for anyone else to park a car. Ever been to Brighton? You can't park anywhere.......

When exactly are people going to CHANGE behaviour? I don't like it anymore than the next person - but tough xxxx, isn't it?

The oil we have must be used to develop alternatives - or else we really are in deep doo-doo. Sod the truckers! Why should they have a special interest?

Of course everything gets more expensive as fuel prices go up.......tell me what the solution is? Is there one? No. It's going to take structural change. The party is over, if it ever began for many of us. Trucks are ridiculous in so many ways. I used to use £100 fuel a day delivering ice cubes!! Ridiculous.

Consider farming: industrial (oil based) farming gains yields 25 times that of non-oil based farming. PEsticide and herbicide are made from oil. fertiliser takes oil. Planting takes oil. Harvesting takes oil. Delivery to market takes oil. Packaging takes oil. And the truckers are worried!!?? What about people starving to death TODAY???? people are ALREADY starving to death everyday - and I'm supposed to be concerned about truckers!!!??

1g of microwave chips takes 650g of fuel to produce - apparently. Every cow raised uses enough fuel to drive once across USA.

Truckers are the very least of our problems. 2p is nothing. The problem is much more serious.
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Re: UK Fuel Price Protest!

Postby ponky » Tue May 27, 2008 6:45 pm

the_last_name_left wrote:The most efficient creature on the planet

Image

The least efficient:

Image

Will you be flying off on your hols then?
Or maybe motoring to some far flung part of the British Isles?
I know that wasn't the intent of your post, and no one more than me loves to see jet fighters scream above in our defence.

Vulcan bomber, God speed you home! Use all the fuel you need , beautiful lady!!
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Re: UK Fuel Price Protest!

Postby The Pink Panther » Tue May 27, 2008 6:48 pm

the_last_name_left wrote:
Why should the motorist subsidise everyone else.


Who pays me for driving through my environment?? I LOATHE traffic.

Why must I subsidise schools when I have no children? Why must I subsidise the army? The nuclear industry? The aircraft industry? The nuclear industry?

If you want to open that question, be my guest. But motoring is subsidised, really. Who pays for the pollution? Motorists don't. Motorists just drive away from their pollution.......never paying for it.

I've worked as a truck-driver btw, and I adore driving too. But so what?

I used to drive a lorry into london every day - delivering ice cubes!!!! Tell me that makes sense? lol

They SHOULD go out of business imo. Freight should be on the railway. New roads cost how many million a mile? How many people have got cars now? I live in one of the least populated parts of the country atm, and even here, the roads are reaching absolute peak capacity - gridlock can't be far away.

All the roads are full of parked cars - there is no space in our street for anyone else to park a car. Ever been to Brighton? You can't park anywhere.......

When exactly are people going to CHANGE behaviour? I don't like it anymore than the next person - but tough xxxx, isn't it?

The oil we have must be used to develop alternatives - or else we really are in deep doo-doo. Sod the truckers! Why should they have a special interest?

Of course everything gets more expensive as fuel prices go up.......tell me what the solution is? Is there one? No. It's going to take structural change. The party is over, if it ever began for many of us. Trucks are ridiculous in so many ways. I used to use £100 fuel a day delivering ice cubes!! Ridiculous.

Consider farming: industrial (oil based) farming gains yields 25 times that of non-oil based farming. PEsticide and herbicide are made from oil. fertiliser takes oil. Planting takes oil. Harvesting takes oil. Delivery to market takes oil. Packaging takes oil. And the truckers are worried!!?? What about people starving to death TODAY???? people are ALREADY starving to death everyday - and I'm supposed to be concerned about truckers!!!??

1g of microwave chips takes 650g of fuel to produce - apparently. Every cow raised uses enough fuel to drive once across USA.

Truckers are the very least of our problems. 2p is nothing. The problem is much more serious.


Like I said why should the motorist subsidise everyone else.


ARTIC ICE Feb 1986 TOTAL AREA 12.5million Sq Km, Feb 2006 12.3million Sq Km
ANTARTIC Aug 1986 TOTAL AREA 13.4million Sq Km Aug 2006 14.5 million Sq km

Source for above figures: US National Snow and Ice Data Centre

THAT MAKES IT A NET INCREASE OF 900,000 Sq kilometers of polar ice.

So over this 20 year time slot one Ice Cap decreased in size by 1.6% while the other ice cap increased in size by 8.2%.
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Re: UK Fuel Price Protest!

Postby lunalovegood » Tue May 27, 2008 6:58 pm

the_last_name_left wrote:
When exactly are people going to CHANGE behaviour? I don't like it anymore than the next person - but tough xxxx, isn't it?

The oil we have must be used to develop alternatives - or else we really are in deep doo-doo. Sod the truckers! Why should they have a special interest?

The party is over, if it ever began for many of us.
Consider farming: industrial (oil based) farming gains yields 25 times that of non-oil based farming. PEsticide and herbicide are made from oil. fertiliser takes oil. Planting takes oil. Harvesting takes oil. Delivery to market takes oil. Packaging takes oil. And the truckers are worried!!?? What about people starving to death TODAY???? people are ALREADY starving to death everyday - and I'm supposed to be concerned about truckers!!!??

1g of microwave chips takes 650g of fuel to produce - apparently. Every cow raised uses enough fuel to drive once across USA.

Truckers are the very least of our problems. 2p is nothing. The problem is much more serious.


Well said tLNL - unfortunately we have all buried our heads in the sand and are looking for this usless bunch of twats we have elected to sort it out...
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Re: UK Fuel Price Protest!

Postby the_last_name_left » Tue May 27, 2008 7:37 pm

ponky wrote:Will you be flying off on your hols then?
Or maybe motoring to some far flung part of the British Isles?
I know that wasn't the intent of your post, and no one more than me loves to see jet fighters scream above in our defence.

Vulcan bomber, God speed you home! Use all the fuel you need , beautiful lady!!


No I won't be flying anywhere. No, I won't be motoring to "far-flung parts of uk". So what?

And auto-eroticism is just a little weird, don't you think?

And you haven't addressed any of the issues at all.

lunalovegod wrote:we have all buried our heads in the sand and are looking for this usless bunch of twats we have elected to sort it out...


But NOBODY can "sort it out" - least of all anyone in hoc to "business as usual".

There really isn't any solution - other than fundamental CHANGE.

pinkpanther wrote:Like I said why should the motorist subsidise everyone else.


ARTIC ICE Feb 1986 TOTAL AREA 12.5million Sq Km, Feb 2006 12.3million Sq Km
ANTARTIC Aug 1986 TOTAL AREA 13.4million Sq Km Aug 2006 14.5 million Sq km

Source for above figures: US National Snow and Ice Data Centre

THAT MAKES IT A NET INCREASE OF 900,000 Sq kilometers of polar ice.

So over this 20 year time slot one Ice Cap decreased in size by 1.6% while the other ice cap increased in size by 8.2%.


What has that got to do with the issue? The point is OIL is LIMITED RESOURCE. Nothing changes that, and nothing you say addresses the issues in the least.

Motorists do NOT pay the real cost of motoring. But anyway - what difference does it make? If you want to reduce tax on motoring, it will have to rise somewhere else. You want to reduce hospital beds, nurses, teachers just so you can fly and drive wherever you like?
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Re: UK Fuel Price Protest!

Postby ponky » Tue May 27, 2008 7:47 pm

the_last_name_left wrote:The most efficient creature on the planet

Image

The least efficient:

Image

Will you be flying off on your hols then?
Or maybe motoring to some far flung part of the British Isles?
I know that wasn't the intent of your post, and no one more than me loves to see jet fighters scream above in our defence.

Vulcan bomber, God speed you home! Use all the fuel you need , beautiful lady!!
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Re: UK Fuel Price Protest!

Postby Montgomery Burns » Tue May 27, 2008 7:57 pm

I'm all for higher prices; the sooner some of the lower orders are priced off the road the better as this will leave more space for higher-rate taxpayers like myself.

Anyone caught driving without tax, insurance and MOT should have their car crushed, preferably with them still in it.

That should create a bit more flexibility in the system.
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Re: UK Fuel Price Protest!

Postby Montgomery Burns » Tue May 27, 2008 8:05 pm

bonnybraes1 wrote:I saw some idiot on Sky earlier, complaining by e-mail that if the road hauliers can't make a profit, they deserve to go out of business.
Just how does he think goods get onto shop shelves, hospital supplies, etc., are delivered - fairy dust?
Of course the hauliers can make a profit, but it means every single person in the country, including that clown, will have to dig ever-deeper in their pockets.
The utter stupidity of someone not grasping that expensive fuel = expensive everything was a wonder to behold.

Bear in mind the hauliers do not want the 2p increase to be scrapped across the board - they want it scrapped just for themselves.

They want a specific rebate to help them compete against foreign hauliers who fill up on the other side of the channel and fill up once back, keeping their spending on derv in the UK to the bare minimum. That of course is only part of their agenda, the rest of which I won't repeat in case it is said to be xenophobic, which it may well be; I couldn't possibly comment however.
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Re: UK Fuel Price Protest!

Postby MoeSzyslak » Tue May 27, 2008 8:17 pm

Hybrid cars are the only thing I can think of as a compromise on saving money on rising fuel costs.
But, then who can afford to buy a new car?
I sure can't.
Would love one though.
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Re: UK Fuel Price Protest!

Postby bugalugs1970 » Tue May 27, 2008 8:25 pm

Montgomery Burns wrote:I'm all for higher prices; the sooner some of the lower orders are priced off the road the better as this will leave more space for higher-rate taxpayers like myself.

Anyone caught driving without tax, insurance and MOT should have their car crushed, preferably with them still in it.........AGREE

That should create a bit more flexibility in the system.




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