OK guys - Jeremy Bamber

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OK guys - Jeremy Bamber

Postby ellibean » Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:02 pm

Innocent or guilty?

:wink:
Gerry's blog 28th Sept....It has been another busy week for Kate and I. Sean and Amelie have settled back into nursery, almost as if they have never been away.
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Re: OK guys - Jeremy Bamber

Postby bjr » Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:08 pm

The official site of Jeremy Bamber

http://www.jeremybamber.com/
To my critics
When I'm in a sober mood, I worry, work and think,
When I'm in a drunken mood, I gamble, play and drink,
But when my moods are over and my time has come to pass,
I hope I'm buried upside down, so the world may kiss my ar*e
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Re: OK guys - Jeremy Bamber

Postby bjr » Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:10 pm

To my critics
When I'm in a sober mood, I worry, work and think,
When I'm in a drunken mood, I gamble, play and drink,
But when my moods are over and my time has come to pass,
I hope I'm buried upside down, so the world may kiss my ar*e
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Re: OK guys - Jeremy Bamber

Postby vanm » Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:26 pm

elibean I really am on the fence with this. When it first happened I read all the news reports and going by the evidence as presented in the newspapers he appeared to be guilty so I went along with that.

Now, after all these years and the people who've been beavering away seem to have uncovered shortcomings in the scene of crime investigation... as I said, I'm on the fence.

This and the Barry George case strengthens my feelings against the death penalty.
beachy said: This is the hour to be brave.
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Re: OK guys - Jeremy Bamber

Postby ellibean » Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:02 am

elibean I really am on the fence with this. When it first happened I read all the news reports and going by the evidence as presented in the newspapers he appeared to be guilty so I went along with that.

Now, after all these years and the people who've been beavering away seem to have uncovered shortcomings in the scene of crime investigation... as I said, I'm on the fence.

This and the Barry George case strengthens my feelings against the death penalty


Hear hear!! I feel exactly the same as you. I have never believed Barry George killed Jill Dando, but am very firmly on the fence with Bamber. Remember seeing a programme about him in the not so distant past which really made me doubt his guilt :?
Gerry's blog 28th Sept....It has been another busy week for Kate and I. Sean and Amelie have settled back into nursery, almost as if they have never been away.
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Re: OK guys - Jeremy Bamber

Postby julygirl3210 » Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:17 am

ellibean wrote:Innocent or guilty?

:wink:


To tell you the truth, I have always believed that he was innocent.
"Out damned spot ................" - Macbeth
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Re: OK guys - Jeremy Bamber

Postby scrafen » Sun Feb 24, 2008 5:59 am

:shock:

innocent :!:

even if he is NOT, there is NO-NO-NO evidence against him ...geezz....what did you do ?
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Re: OK guys - Jeremy Bamber

Postby tylersmum » Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:35 am

scrafen wrote::shock:

innocent :!:

even if he is NOT, there is NO-NO-NO evidence against him ...geezz....what did you do ?

Jeremy Bamber phoned the police to say that his father had phoned him and said that his sister Sheila was running amok(it transpires that the father couldn't have made the call as he had been shot in the throat and would not have been able to talk).Whilst the police were racing to the scene they passed Bamber SLOWLY driving down the road towards the farm.
Bambers prints were found on the murder weapon and it was discovered that the so called suicide of Sheila was staged.She had been shot with a rifle with a silencer fitted and the silencer had been taken off afterwards and hidden.

After the deaths Bamber showed no emotion and seemed mainly concerned with how much money he would inherit.In fact he obtained his sisters old modelling photos but only so he could sell them.
He had mentioned killing his father on several times to his girlfriend and it was when he told her he had paid a hitman £2,000 that she went to the police.

To suggest there is no evidence against him is understating the case
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Re: OK guys - Jeremy Bamber

Postby scrafen » Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:07 am

thanks tylersmum...

the both articles (from bjr) dont mention HIS fingerprints were on the murder weapon...
(it wasnt mentioned anywhere either, where it did come from - it was belonging to the family ? ---> then everyones fingerprints could have been on it, and there must have been his fingerprints on the silencer too then ?)

and it was on some website, that NOT sheilas blood was found on the silencer, it was her mothers and a male type (assumed her fathers)...

sheila, who was supposed to have killed them, died hours later than the other family members...
(she was still b:leeding when found, and her stomach contained not resolved food)

when she shot herself twice, and as suggested was seen first by the police downstairs lieing in the kitchen, then ---> was there any blood of hers ? (i mean a shooting wound with a rifle from short distance must at least bleed heavily?, or did she leave blood traces somewhere in the house at all ? where were the bullet casings found?)
every shoot leaves blood splatters, it must be possible to find, where she was hit by a bullet each time...?

but i find it hard to believe, she shot herself the second time *without* silencer (which was found "back" in the board), while the police was in front of the house and noone heard it...
but she could have had the wounds for some hours already before she died of it ?

it was said, sheila HAD lead traces on her hands - whenever the judge fai remember said, it was "not enough"..

and there seem to be various sources claiming there was a "conversation" with a person inside the house, while jeremy was with the police outside...?
i mean: is this true or not ? that should be clear what it is - there were many officers around...

the silencer - which obviously the mum and dad where shot with - and that was back put back into the board:
when sheila shot herself with the rifle, then - i dont know how silencers for rifles look - but with it, the rifle was simply too long, to manage a shot near head area ?


thats a most interesting case, i read it in the early morning and found it *very* creepy...


:arrow: evidence against jeremy:
-- his fingerprints on the rifle (still question: where there other fingerprints on it too ?)
-- his girl friend calling the police and (simply) claiming that he talked about killing/hit man...
-- his suspicious behaviour (not hurrying to the place, his father did not call the police instead, blaming his sister)
---> not much... in addition he passed a lie detector test... and there is *nothing* what destroys the theory sheila could have done it, but quite some facts she did it (died late) :?:

:arrow: questions open:
-- location of bullets (who was shot where)
-- whose fingerprints are on the bullet cases ?
-- whose fingerprints on the rifle besides of jeremys...
-- whose fingerprints on the silencer, his too ?
-- conversation took place (police <--> person in the house)
-- really sheilas blood on the silencer, or only the parents ?
-- blood splatters of persons in the house (where and from what angle was shot, did the victim move afterwards) ?
-- where sheilas wounds fatal immediatley, or died she slowly of it ?
-- was sheila moving after the first wound ?
-- is it true, the father called jeremy ? can it be proven by the phone company ?
Last edited by scrafen on Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: OK guys - Jeremy Bamber

Postby shoperoo » Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:33 am

At the heart of the original prosecution case was evidence that Sheila's blood was in the sound moderator, or silencer, of the murder weapon. If so, she could not have shot herself then put it in a cupboard downstairs.

Yes ,having read alot about this case I think the
right guy is behind bars.
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Re: OK guys - Jeremy Bamber

Postby scrafen » Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:39 am

re:
-- silencer with blood traces of sheila (to be questioned see below)
-- sheila was shot twice

she could have shot her first time WITH silencer, but no fatal injury...
the silencer was put back, and then she shot the second time (fatal) WITHOUT it...

recent forensics DONT show blood of sheila on the silencer,
in first place it was already questionable, not 100 % clear, it was a match with her blood...


http://www.jeremybamber.com/case-synopsis.php
"Three days after the shootings one of Jeremy's cousins found a sound moderator (silencer) in a downstairs gun cupboard. Upon close examination later that evening it was noticed that a small amount of blood was present inside the tube. Tests on the blood appeared to show that it originated from Sheila Caffell. It was claimed at trial that there was a "remote possibility", however, that the blood could have been a mixture from Ralph and June Bamber. If the blood was Sheila's then this meant she could not have committed suicide, the prosecution argued, because if she did kill herself how did the sound moderator find its way downstairs? Recent tests show the blood was not Sheila's; none of her DNA was found, yet DNA from June Bamber and a male, possibly Ralph Bamber, was found."
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Re: OK guys - Jeremy Bamber

Postby shoperoo » Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:01 pm

scrafen wrote:re:
-- silencer with blood traces of sheila (to be questioned see below)
-- sheila was shot twice

she could have shot her first time WITH silencer, but no fatal injury...
the silencer was put back, and then she shot the second time (fatal) WITHOUT it...

recent forensics DONT show blood of sheila on the silencer,
in first place it was already questionable, not 100 % clear, it was a match with her blood...


http://www.jeremybamber.com/case-synopsis.php
"Three days after the shootings one of Jeremy's cousins found a sound moderator (silencer) in a downstairs gun cupboard. Upon close examination later that evening it was noticed that a small amount of blood was present inside the tube. Tests on the blood appeared to show that it originated from Sheila Caffell. It was claimed at trial that there was a "remote possibility", however, that the blood could have been a mixture from Ralph and June Bamber. If the blood was Sheila's then this meant she could not have committed suicide, the prosecution argued, because if she did kill herself how did the sound moderator find its way downstairs? Recent tests show the blood was not Sheila's; none of her DNA was found, yet DNA from June Bamber and a male, possibly Ralph Bamber, was found."



When forensic scientists examined the silencer, they found traces of blood in the form of smears in three places on the outside of the silencer: on the flat surface at the muzzle end, in the knurled end and in the ridge at the gun end of the device. The blood on the outside of the silencer was confirmed to be of human origin but there were insufficient quantities to permit grouping analysis.
Inside the silencer, on the four or five baffles nearest to the end from which the bullet would exit, there was a considerable amount of blood. At one point blood had pooled to form a flake when it dried, and this flake was subjected to group testing.
The forensic scientist said that they showed that the blood could have come from Sheila Caffell but not from any of the other individuals involved.
In his testimony, he added that he would be very surprised to find blood from a person, who had not been shot with a contact or very close contact shot inside the muzzle of the silencer.
"He concluded that since (a) the blood inside the moderator belonged to the same group as Sheila Caffell and (b) there was no blood within the barrel of the rifle of the gun, that she had been shot whilst the moderator was fitted to the rifle," the appeals court found.
The ballistics expert also expressed the opinion to the jury that the silencer had been fitted to the gun when Sheila Caffell had been shot. He attributed the presence of blood within the device to the phenomenon of "back-spatter," which occurs when the expansion of gases created by a bullet being discharged creates back pressure which in turn propels blood from the wound back towards the weapon. This effect is only seen when the muzzle of the weapon is in contact with, or very close contact to, the victim.
Most importantly, exercises and tests conducted at the laboratory established that it would have been physically impossible for a woman of Sheila Caffell's height and reach to have operated the trigger and shot herself with the silencer attached to the weapon. She simply could not have reached it. Thus she could only have committed suicide if the sound moderator had been removed from the rifle.
Finally, in Sheila's defense, there had never been manifestations of violence either when her illness was being managed or when in a highly disturbed state in hospital.
"In the context of what was alleged to have occurred, (her psychiatrist) found it possible to conceive of Sheila Caffell wanting to harm her mother or herself but 'difficult to conceptualise her harming her children or her father'," the court found. "He had always felt Sheila loved and cared for her children and saw her father as a very secure, caring and strong support in her life."
In terms of evidence against Jeremy Bamber, his ex-girlfriend was a key witness against him. She said that after she met him, it quickly became obvious to her that he disliked his family.
Between July and October 1984, he said that his parents were getting him down and he said that he wished "he could get rid of them all". She testified that he had said this included his sister and children because "if he was going to get rid of them it would have to be all of them."
At about 9:50 p.m. on Tuesday, 6 August Bamber phoned his girlfriend. During their conversation that evening he said he was "p***** off" and had been thinking about the crime all day and that it was going to be "tonight or never."
This coincides with the testimony of the farm secretary who called the farmhouse at 9:30 p.m. and spoke to Nevill Bamber. He was not cheerful and the secretary thought she had interrupted an argument. In evidence she described Nevill as abrupt, very impatient and very short.
The following morning Bamber's girlfriend was awoken by a telephone call where he said to her, "Everything is going well. Something is wrong at the farm. I haven't had any sleep all night  bye honey and I love you lots."
After a few weeks to think it over, the girlfriend visited police and gave a lengthy statement. Following that visit to the police, Bamber was arrested on September 8, 1985 and interviewed during the course of the following three days.
Throughout the interviews he maintained his innocence and the account that he had given in his witness statements. He denied any form of confession or any talk of planning to kill his family. He said his girlfriend was lying because he had jilted her.


There is a plethora of information availabe if one wants to google it. All anyone can do is read it and form his /her opinion. IMy opinion is Jeremy Bamber is guilty of killing his family.
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Re: OK guys - Jeremy Bamber

Postby scrafen » Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:29 pm

http://markgribben.com/?p=96

>>"The picture of Sheila clearly shows there is blood running down her neck. That can't have happened if she had been dead for five or six hours," Bamber told British media."<<
could be explained, when the murderer (jeremy) left the dying sheila behind at 3 a.m. but what a ridiculous risk for him to take ? he made multiple times clear everyone was dead, but not with sheila...?

>>"Officers entered the farm at 7:45 a.m. after waiting to see if there was a hostage situation and found all 5 occupants dead from gunshot wounds."<<
its hard to get, that the police was called with THIS information (sheilas mad, having a gun), and at the crime scene (later they claimed) none of 5 people, including two kids, was responding anymore... then they waited another 5 hours :!: in front of a dark deadly quiet building ?
...come on... :roll: (and maybe sheila would have survived when they went in earlier ?)


:arrow: they came to the crime scene where a women with a gun was "running mad" and NOBODY was responding there, not opening the door, not talking, not screaming, crying... NOTHING... and they didnt go in :?:
the most likely assumption would be: all dead, most serious wounded - needing help...
---> not to buy :!:
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Re: OK guys - Jeremy Bamber

Postby scrafen » Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:07 pm

:arrow: sheila - shot with silencer, another without... or even both shots with silencer

either way she can have done it herself (imo)...
---> if none of the shots was immediately fatal...
---> imo its possible to shoot yourself (easily) with a long rifle... lie down on the floor and use your foot or a stick..was sheila wearing shoes ?
---> and when thinking of another murderer, he would have shot her into the head, as usually done, setting the gun against the chin... assuming he shot her into the neck and found she wasnt dead and shot another time, then he would have placed it "better"...
---> or she was having a fight with her father, and a shot was released during this - her father shocked by this stumbled back and so she gained back control over the gun...

:arrow: there seem to be much to many options how it could have happened, but no real evidence to set jeremy behind bars for 25 years... :?:
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Re: OK guys - Jeremy Bamber

Postby allanSundry » Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:10 pm

I always enjoyed University Challenge, if that counts for anything?
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