The Legal Aspects of this Case

Madeleine Beth McCann went missing from PDL in Portugal on the 3rd May 2007, there are so many unanswered questions, please discuss

Re: The Legal Aspects of this Case

Postby lj » Thu May 29, 2008 12:02 am

Can I ask a lay-woman question, I tried to find it, but it is too murky for me.

Suppose the EAW is issued and with what we know now a 2 year (just a guess) wrangling goes on about "to go or not to go", can they travel outside GB?

Or if they travel for example to Brussels again, does Belgium LE have the duty to arrest them and deport them to Portugal.

What if they go to Washington??

Any ideas?
*Soon, very soon the world will know the "Truth about the Lie" and "we will gain truth and justice for a little girl who has no voice", dead on the evening of May 3rd at apartment 5A, Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Algarve, Portugal"*
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Re: The Legal Aspects of this Case

Postby pear » Thu May 29, 2008 2:19 pm

lj wrote:Can I ask a lay-woman question, I tried to find it, but it is too murky for me.

Suppose the EAW is issued and with what we know now a 2 year (just a guess) wrangling goes on about "to go or not to go", can they travel outside GB?

Or if they travel for example to Brussels again, does Belgium LE have the duty to arrest them and deport them to Portugal.

What if they go to Washington??

Any ideas?


The timeframe is a lot shorter than that, actually: if people do NOT agree to be "deported", it takes 90 days, I think.

Anyway, here is what the Convention says:

Article 12
Keeping the person in detention
When a person is arrested on the basis of a European arrest warrant, the executing judicial authority shall take a decision on whether the requested person should remain in detention, in accordance with the law of the executing Member State. The person may be released provisionally at any time in conformity with the domestic law of the executing Member State, provided that the competent authority of the said Member State takes all the measures it deems necessary to prevent the person absconding.

My take is that they would be arrested, they fight the EAW, the UK authorities would have to decide wether or not to keep them in prison during those 3 months, if not, they are responsible for their wherabouts.
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Re: The Legal Aspects of this Case

Postby tylersmum » Thu May 29, 2008 2:31 pm

pear wrote:
lj wrote:Can I ask a lay-woman question, I tried to find it, but it is too murky for me.

Suppose the EAW is issued and with what we know now a 2 year (just a guess) wrangling goes on about "to go or not to go", can they travel outside GB?

Or if they travel for example to Brussels again, does Belgium LE have the duty to arrest them and deport them to Portugal.

What if they go to Washington??

Any ideas?


The timeframe is a lot shorter than that, actually: if people do NOT agree to be "deported", it takes 90 days, I think.

Anyway, here is what the Convention says:

Article 12
Keeping the person in detention
When a person is arrested on the basis of a European arrest warrant, the executing judicial authority shall take a decision on whether the requested person should remain in detention, in accordance with the law of the executing Member State. The person may be released provisionally at any time in conformity with the domestic law of the executing Member State, provided that the competent authority of the said Member State takes all the measures it deems necessary to prevent the person absconding.

My take is that they would be arrested, they fight the EAW, the UK authorities would have to decide wether or not to keep them in prison during those 3 months, if not, they are responsible for their wherabouts.

If arrested here the McCanns would be eligible for bail under the Right to Bail Act,this states that you must be given bail unless you fall into certain categories none of which apply to the Mccanns as I can see.

If granted bail as long as their bail conditions allowed them to travel then they could travel without fear of arrest.I would even imagine that if the McCanns for some reason decided to visit Portugal whilst on bail to a British court that the Portuguese authorities would have a job arresting them
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Re: The Legal Aspects of this Case

Postby lj » Thu May 29, 2008 3:29 pm

pear wrote:
lj wrote:Can I ask a lay-woman question, I tried to find it, but it is too murky for me.

Suppose the EAW is issued and with what we know now a 2 year (just a guess) wrangling goes on about "to go or not to go", can they travel outside GB?

Or if they travel for example to Brussels again, does Belgium LE have the duty to arrest them and deport them to Portugal.

What if they go to Washington??

Any ideas?


The timeframe is a lot shorter than that, actually: if people do NOT agree to be "deported", it takes 90 days, I think.

Anyway, here is what the Convention says:

Article 12
Keeping the person in detention
When a person is arrested on the basis of a European arrest warrant, the executing judicial authority shall take a decision on whether the requested person should remain in detention, in accordance with the law of the executing Member State. The person may be released provisionally at any time in conformity with the domestic law of the executing Member State, provided that the competent authority of the said Member State takes all the measures it deems necessary to prevent the person absconding.

My take is that they would be arrested, they fight the EAW, the UK authorities would have to decide wether or not to keep them in prison during those 3 months, if not, they are responsible for their wherabouts.


Thank you, pear!

My 2 years were based on how long it took for the rogatory letters to be offially "received". :mrgreen:
*Soon, very soon the world will know the "Truth about the Lie" and "we will gain truth and justice for a little girl who has no voice", dead on the evening of May 3rd at apartment 5A, Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Algarve, Portugal"*
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Re: The Legal Aspects of this Case

Postby lj » Thu May 29, 2008 3:37 pm

tylersmum wrote:
pear wrote:
lj wrote:Can I ask a lay-woman question, I tried to find it, but it is too murky for me.

Suppose the EAW is issued and with what we know now a 2 year (just a guess) wrangling goes on about "to go or not to go", can they travel outside GB?

Or if they travel for example to Brussels again, does Belgium LE have the duty to arrest them and deport them to Portugal.

What if they go to Washington??

Any ideas?


The timeframe is a lot shorter than that, actually: if people do NOT agree to be "deported", it takes 90 days, I think.

Anyway, here is what the Convention says:

Article 12
Keeping the person in detention
When a person is arrested on the basis of a European arrest warrant, the executing judicial authority shall take a decision on whether the requested person should remain in detention, in accordance with the law of the executing Member State. The person may be released provisionally at any time in conformity with the domestic law of the executing Member State, provided that the competent authority of the said Member State takes all the measures it deems necessary to prevent the person absconding.

My take is that they would be arrested, they fight the EAW, the UK authorities would have to decide wether or not to keep them in prison during those 3 months, if not, they are responsible for their wherabouts.

If arrested here the McCanns would be eligible for bail under the Right to Bail Act,this states that you must be given bail unless you fall into certain categories none of which apply to the Mccanns as I can see.

If granted bail as long as their bail conditions allowed them to travel then they could travel without fear of arrest.I would even imagine that if the McCanns for some reason decided to visit Portugal whilst on bail to a British court that the Portuguese authorities would have a job arresting them



Thank you TM. Maybe we will se a reconstruction under those conditions.

For you and pear:
1:would fighting extradition been done before arrest or under arrest (whether or not on bail?) I would assume under arrest, otherwise there would not be a request for extradition.
2: How long do you think they could avoid being arrested after EAW is issued. IAW (thinking of the rogatory letters again) do you expect a lot of rail roading and how long will that take IF an EAW is issued?
*Soon, very soon the world will know the "Truth about the Lie" and "we will gain truth and justice for a little girl who has no voice", dead on the evening of May 3rd at apartment 5A, Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Algarve, Portugal"*
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Re: The Legal Aspects of this Case

Postby tylersmum » Thu May 29, 2008 4:21 pm

lj wrote:
tylersmum wrote:
pear wrote:
lj wrote:Can I ask a lay-woman question, I tried to find it, but it is too murky for me.

Suppose the EAW is issued and with what we know now a 2 year (just a guess) wrangling goes on about "to go or not to go", can they travel outside GB?

Or if they travel for example to Brussels again, does Belgium LE have the duty to arrest them and deport them to Portugal.

What if they go to Washington??

Any ideas?


The timeframe is a lot shorter than that, actually: if people do NOT agree to be "deported", it takes 90 days, I think.

Anyway, here is what the Convention says:

Article 12
Keeping the person in detention
When a person is arrested on the basis of a European arrest warrant, the executing judicial authority shall take a decision on whether the requested person should remain in detention, in accordance with the law of the executing Member State. The person may be released provisionally at any time in conformity with the domestic law of the executing Member State, provided that the competent authority of the said Member State takes all the measures it deems necessary to prevent the person absconding.

My take is that they would be arrested, they fight the EAW, the UK authorities would have to decide wether or not to keep them in prison during those 3 months, if not, they are responsible for their wherabouts.

If arrested here the McCanns would be eligible for bail under the Right to Bail Act,this states that you must be given bail unless you fall into certain categories none of which apply to the Mccanns as I can see.

If granted bail as long as their bail conditions allowed them to travel then they could travel without fear of arrest.I would even imagine that if the McCanns for some reason decided to visit Portugal whilst on bail to a British court that the Portuguese authorities would have a job arresting them



Thank you TM. Maybe we will se a reconstruction under those conditions.

For you and pear:
1:would fighting extradition been done before arrest or under arrest (whether or not on bail?) I would assume under arrest, otherwise there would not be a request for extradition.
2: How long do you think they could avoid being arrested after EAW is issued. IAW (thinking of the rogatory letters again) do you expect a lot of rail roading and how long will that take IF an EAW is issued?

You can't fight extradition until an EAW has been issued.
An EAW can be issued over the phone .So Portugal phone Leicestershire Police who go straight around and arrest the McCanns,it takes minutes.It is hard for anyone to avoid being arrested also if someone avoids arrest it could be used to stop them getting bail.
Technically the whole process including appeals should be done in a short period but a man named Farid Hilali fought an EAW for nearly 3 years.It depends on how many legal grounds you lawyers come up with.
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Re: The Legal Aspects of this Case

Postby foxy » Thu May 29, 2008 4:54 pm

tylersmum wrote:
lj wrote:
tylersmum wrote:
pear wrote:
lj wrote:Can I ask a lay-woman question, I tried to find it, but it is too murky for me.

Suppose the EAW is issued and with what we know now a 2 year (just a guess) wrangling goes on about "to go or not to go", can they travel outside GB?

Or if they travel for example to Brussels again, does Belgium LE have the duty to arrest them and deport them to Portugal.

What if they go to Washington??

Any ideas?


The timeframe is a lot shorter than that, actually: if people do NOT agree to be "deported", it takes 90 days, I think.

Anyway, here is what the Convention says:

Article 12
Keeping the person in detention
When a person is arrested on the basis of a European arrest warrant, the executing judicial authority shall take a decision on whether the requested person should remain in detention, in accordance with the law of the executing Member State. The person may be released provisionally at any time in conformity with the domestic law of the executing Member State, provided that the competent authority of the said Member State takes all the measures it deems necessary to prevent the person absconding.

My take is that they would be arrested, they fight the EAW, the UK authorities would have to decide wether or not to keep them in prison during those 3 months, if not, they are responsible for their wherabouts.

If arrested here the McCanns would be eligible for bail under the Right to Bail Act,this states that you must be given bail unless you fall into certain categories none of which apply to the Mccanns as I can see.

If granted bail as long as their bail conditions allowed them to travel then they could travel without fear of arrest.I would even imagine that if the McCanns for some reason decided to visit Portugal whilst on bail to a British court that the Portuguese authorities would have a job arresting them



Thank you TM. Maybe we will se a reconstruction under those conditions.

For you and pear:
1:would fighting extradition been done before arrest or under arrest (whether or not on bail?) I would assume under arrest, otherwise there would not be a request for extradition.
2: How long do you think they could avoid being arrested after EAW is issued. IAW (thinking of the rogatory letters again) do you expect a lot of rail roading and how long will that take IF an EAW is issued?

You can't fight extradition until an EAW has been issued.
An EAW can be issued over the phone .So Portugal phone Leicestershire Police who go straight around and arrest the McCanns,it takes minutes.It is hard for anyone to avoid being arrested also if someone avoids arrest it could be used to stop them getting bail.
Technically the whole process including appeals should be done in a short period but a man named Farid Hilali fought an EAW for nearly 3 years.It depends on how many legal grounds you lawyers come up with.



Bail can be refused if you are likely to interefere with witnesses
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Re: The Legal Aspects of this Case

Postby lj » Thu May 29, 2008 5:34 pm

tylersmum wrote:
lj wrote:
tylersmum wrote:
pear wrote:
lj wrote:Can I ask a lay-woman question, I tried to find it, but it is too murky for me.

Suppose the EAW is issued and with what we know now a 2 year (just a guess) wrangling goes on about "to go or not to go", can they travel outside GB?

Or if they travel for example to Brussels again, does Belgium LE have the duty to arrest them and deport them to Portugal.

What if they go to Washington??

Any ideas?


The timeframe is a lot shorter than that, actually: if people do NOT agree to be "deported", it takes 90 days, I think.

Anyway, here is what the Convention says:

Article 12
Keeping the person in detention
When a person is arrested on the basis of a European arrest warrant, the executing judicial authority shall take a decision on whether the requested person should remain in detention, in accordance with the law of the executing Member State. The person may be released provisionally at any time in conformity with the domestic law of the executing Member State, provided that the competent authority of the said Member State takes all the measures it deems necessary to prevent the person absconding.

My take is that they would be arrested, they fight the EAW, the UK authorities would have to decide wether or not to keep them in prison during those 3 months, if not, they are responsible for their wherabouts.

If arrested here the McCanns would be eligible for bail under the Right to Bail Act,this states that you must be given bail unless you fall into certain categories none of which apply to the Mccanns as I can see.

If granted bail as long as their bail conditions allowed them to travel then they could travel without fear of arrest.I would even imagine that if the McCanns for some reason decided to visit Portugal whilst on bail to a British court that the Portuguese authorities would have a job arresting them



Thank you TM. Maybe we will se a reconstruction under those conditions.

For you and pear:
1:would fighting extradition been done before arrest or under arrest (whether or not on bail?) I would assume under arrest, otherwise there would not be a request for extradition.
2: How long do you think they could avoid being arrested after EAW is issued. IAW (thinking of the rogatory letters again) do you expect a lot of rail roading and how long will that take IF an EAW is issued?

You can't fight extradition until an EAW has been issued.
An EAW can be issued over the phone .So Portugal phone Leicestershire Police who go straight around and arrest the McCanns,it takes minutes.It is hard for anyone to avoid being arrested also if someone avoids arrest it could be used to stop them getting bail.
Technically the whole process including appeals should be done in a short period but a man named Farid Hilali fought an EAW for nearly 3 years.It depends on how many legal grounds you lawyers come up with.



Thank you, tm, seems to be a more straightforward process than the rogatory letters.
*Soon, very soon the world will know the "Truth about the Lie" and "we will gain truth and justice for a little girl who has no voice", dead on the evening of May 3rd at apartment 5A, Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Algarve, Portugal"*
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Re: The Legal Aspects of this Case

Postby lj » Thu May 29, 2008 5:35 pm

foxy wrote:
tylersmum wrote:
lj wrote:
tylersmum wrote:
pear wrote:
lj wrote:Can I ask a lay-woman question, I tried to find it, but it is too murky for me.

Suppose the EAW is issued and with what we know now a 2 year (just a guess) wrangling goes on about "to go or not to go", can they travel outside GB?

Or if they travel for example to Brussels again, does Belgium LE have the duty to arrest them and deport them to Portugal.

What if they go to Washington??

Any ideas?


The timeframe is a lot shorter than that, actually: if people do NOT agree to be "deported", it takes 90 days, I think.

Anyway, here is what the Convention says:

Article 12
Keeping the person in detention
When a person is arrested on the basis of a European arrest warrant, the executing judicial authority shall take a decision on whether the requested person should remain in detention, in accordance with the law of the executing Member State. The person may be released provisionally at any time in conformity with the domestic law of the executing Member State, provided that the competent authority of the said Member State takes all the measures it deems necessary to prevent the person absconding.

My take is that they would be arrested, they fight the EAW, the UK authorities would have to decide wether or not to keep them in prison during those 3 months, if not, they are responsible for their wherabouts.

If arrested here the McCanns would be eligible for bail under the Right to Bail Act,this states that you must be given bail unless you fall into certain categories none of which apply to the Mccanns as I can see.

If granted bail as long as their bail conditions allowed them to travel then they could travel without fear of arrest.I would even imagine that if the McCanns for some reason decided to visit Portugal whilst on bail to a British court that the Portuguese authorities would have a job arresting them



Thank you TM. Maybe we will se a reconstruction under those conditions.

For you and pear:
1:would fighting extradition been done before arrest or under arrest (whether or not on bail?) I would assume under arrest, otherwise there would not be a request for extradition.
2: How long do you think they could avoid being arrested after EAW is issued. IAW (thinking of the rogatory letters again) do you expect a lot of rail roading and how long will that take IF an EAW is issued?

You can't fight extradition until an EAW has been issued.
An EAW can be issued over the phone .So Portugal phone Leicestershire Police who go straight around and arrest the McCanns,it takes minutes.It is hard for anyone to avoid being arrested also if someone avoids arrest it could be used to stop them getting bail.
Technically the whole process including appeals should be done in a short period but a man named Farid Hilali fought an EAW for nearly 3 years.It depends on how many legal grounds you lawyers come up with.



Bail can be refused if you are likely to interefere with witnesses



No worries, all the interference has already be done! :wink:
*Soon, very soon the world will know the "Truth about the Lie" and "we will gain truth and justice for a little girl who has no voice", dead on the evening of May 3rd at apartment 5A, Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Algarve, Portugal"*
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Re: The Legal Aspects of this Case

Postby mickey1 » Fri May 30, 2008 10:02 am

copies of posts from another thread a Portuguese aspect would be very welcome

***************************************
mickey1 wrote:
Conspiracy to pervert the course of justice - if they had a 'pact'??

jassi wrote:
This may not apply in Portugual, but in UK, 'conspiracy to pervert the course of justice' can result in a life sentence.

mickey1 wrote:
OOH I hope it does apply would give us all a warm fuzzy feeling

will go and post it on the legal thread
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Re: The Legal Aspects of this Case

Postby lj » Fri May 30, 2008 2:13 pm

mickey1 wrote:copies of posts from another thread a Portuguese aspect would be very welcome

***************************************
mickey1 wrote:
Conspiracy to pervert the course of justice - if they had a 'pact'??

jassi wrote:
This may not apply in Portugual, but in UK, 'conspiracy to pervert the course of justice' can result in a life sentence.

mickey1 wrote:
OOH I hope it does apply would give us all a warm fuzzy feeling

will go and post it on the legal thread


:mrgreen:
*Soon, very soon the world will know the "Truth about the Lie" and "we will gain truth and justice for a little girl who has no voice", dead on the evening of May 3rd at apartment 5A, Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Algarve, Portugal"*
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