ROGATORY LETTERS, PJ INTERVIEWS, and RECONSTRUCTION UPDATE

Madeleine Beth McCann went missing from PDL in Portugal on the 3rd May 2007, there are so many unanswered questions, please discuss

Re: ROGATORY LETTERS, PJ INTERVIEWS, and RECONSTRUCTION UPDATE

Postby HawkEyes1 » Thu May 29, 2008 3:14 am

The British newspapers are finally catching up with the contents of the Evora court document (see earlier posting). I will post this one from the Telegraph for the record:

Madeleine McCann's parents being investigated for negligence
By Laura Clout
Last Updated: 2:38AM BST 29/05/2008
Portuguese police are investigating the possibility that the parents of Madeleine McCann were negligent when they left their daughter alone in their unlocked holiday apartment on the night she went missing.


According to the first published court ruling on the case, the investigation covers abduction, homicide, exposure or abandonment of a child, and concealment of a corpse.

The judgment, released by the Evora Supreme Court of Justice in Portimao, gives the first official glimpse into the course of the police inquiry, which has hitherto been guarded by Portugal's strict judicial secrecy laws.

The reference to "abandonment" suggests that detectives are looking for evidence that Gerry and Kate McCann were negligent in leaving Madeleine and her twin 18-month-old siblings unsupervised while they ate dinner with friends on the evening she vanished.

Under Portuguese law, the crime of abandonment carries a prison sentence of up to 10 years.

Mr and Mrs McCann, who are arguidos - or suspects - in their daughter's disappearance, have repeatedly denied neglecting Madeleine, who was three when she vanished from the family's holiday apartment in Praia da Luz on 3 May 2007.

The couple, from Rothley in Leicestershire, have said they were just 50 yards away when their daughter went missing, and had made regular checks on the children throughout the evening.

The court ruling also revealed that the public prosecutor wants access to the content of text, audio and video messages from 10 mobile phones believed to belong to Mr and Mrs McCann and a group of their British friends known as the 'Tapas Seven'.

Police also want access to the content of 14 messages allegedly sent to Mr McCann's mobile phone from an unidentified number the day before Madeleine disappeared, and to a further 4 messages from the same number which he received the day after she vanished.

They also want details of all calls between members of the group between 8pm on May 3 and noon the following day.

The judgment was published after Judge Fernando Ribeiro Cardoso rejected the prosecutor's appeal against a decision not to grant the interception of the calls and messages.

It offers the first official glimpse into the investigation for Mr and Mrs McCann, who have spoken of their frustration at being denied access to crucial police files.

Clarence Mitchell, spokesman for the McCanns said: "Certainly its encouraging that they are investigating whether Madeleine was abducted, because that's what happened, as Kate and Gerry have always said.

"Quite frankly, they would like to see them [the Portuguese police] doing more searching on the ground."

He added that according to legal advice which they were given, the actions of the couple on May 3 had been "well within the bounds of responsible parenting".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2045757 ... gence.html
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Re: ROGATORY LETTERS, PJ INTERVIEWS, and RECONSTRUCTION UPDATE

Postby HawkEyes1 » Thu May 29, 2008 4:10 am

A follow-up story in 24 Horas, May 29, 2008, follows, courtesy of Li, with some minor modifications and corrections in spelling of names:

Afraid of being declared arguidos
The other two couples that left the children in the Ocean Club were afraid by the fact that the Portuguese law previews a penalty till 10 years in jail to those that abandon minors
Text Carlos Tomás


Two couples refused to return to Portugal to cooperate with the PJ in the reenactment of the 3rd of May, 2007. Amongst the motives to refuse, the 24 Horas discovered that it was the fact that Jane Tanner, Russell O'Brien, and Rachael and Matthew Oldfield were afraid of being declared arguidos.

From the group of nine people that dined in the Tapas Bar on the night of the disappearance, apart from Maddie's parents, these were the couples that had children. And also them left the children alone in the apartments of the Ocean Club - according to Article 138┬║ of the Penal Code, that constitutes a crime that can be punishable with ten years in jail.

"They made several demands from a special airplane to a five star hotel. The last that they demanded was not to be constituted arguidos, whilst the McCanns demanded exactly the contrary. According to our law that is impossible to guarantee," explained an officlal connected with the case to 24 Horas.

According to testimonies collected by the PJ in the Tapas Bar, only Russell O'Brien and Gerry McCann left the restaurant between 19,00 and 22,00 hours in the period that the authorities believe the child went missing.

"The refusal of the friends to return to Portugal is unbelievable. Only three said they would come," David Payne, Dianne Webster and Fiona, said the same source.

To note that the depositions of Fiona Payne and her husband are considered fundamental to elaborate the accusation that is almost concluded.

Facts
Calm
Diane Webster, 63 years old, was the most calm person of the group. After Kate entered the Bar screaming "they've taken her," she was calm and serene.

Reservation
The reservation of the apartments of the Ocean Club - made through the Internet - was done by David Payne, one of the witnesses who was available to return to Portugal.

Three consistent versions
The investigators of the PJ, who are conducting Maddie's case, coordinated by Paulo Rebelo and Guilhermino Encarnação, have already analysed the principal depositions collected in Leicester, England. The ones that have consistency, are the ones of David and Fiona Payne and Diane Webster, 24 Horas has discovered. All the other depositions present several contradictions or did not advance anything important to the case. However, the depositions of more than 50 persons, who spent holidays in the Ocean Club on that date and live in England, are still being analysed.

According to the depositions of these three friends of the McCanns from 18,00 hours onwards none of them saw Maddie, although she was extremely active and liked to be with the group. The only person who says he went to see the child after 21,00 hours is her father Gerry, who confessed that he was talking for several minutes with a friend near the door of the flat, and after that only his wife Kate who gave the alarm of the disappearance after 22,30 hours. The authorities were only called near 23,45 hours.

http://www.24horasnewspaper.com/total.php?numero=2855&link=11
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Re: ROGATORY LETTERS, PJ INTERVIEWS, and RECONSTRUCTION UPDATE

Postby Mobydick » Thu May 29, 2008 10:52 am

Hi Hawkeyes,

I have a theory, but I'm not sure about the 'law' part of it. I would appreciate if you could let me know whether I got it right or not. Thanks in advance :)

This is it:

Now that the McCanns have finally confirmed they're not going to the reconstruction, it seems that the 'ball's in the PJ's court', and from what is being reported on the papers rumour has it that the PJ may be thinking of charging the McCanns with neglect. My theory is this:

As we all know, the Mclawyers are desperate to get their hands on the police file. Is it possible that, if charged with neglect only, only information related to their neglect charges will be revealed, but nothing about the evidence they may have re murder/manslaugher? Then once the PJ get the McCanns to Portugal, more interviews may take place and more charges may be broughtwith no time for their lawyers to prepare the case or delay the process any more is this another great move from the PJ or am I being too optimistic? Thanks!
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Re: ROGATORY LETTERS, PJ INTERVIEWS, and RECONSTRUCTION UPDATE

Postby Amber08 » Thu May 29, 2008 3:50 pm

Mobydick wrote:Hi Hawkeyes,

I have a theory, but I'm not sure about the 'law' part of it. I would appreciate if you could let me know whether I got it right or not. Thanks in advance :)

This is it:

Now that the McCanns have finally confirmed they're not going to the reconstruction, it seems that the 'ball's in the PJ's court', and from what is being reported on the papers rumour has it that the PJ may be thinking of charging the McCanns with neglect. My theory is this:

As we all know, the Mclawyers are desperate to get their hands on the police file. Is it possible that, if charged with neglect only, only information related to their neglect charges will be revealed, but nothing about the evidence they may have re murder/manslaugher? Then once the PJ get the McCanns to Portugal, more interviews may take place and more charges may be broughtwith no time for their lawyers to prepare the case or delay the process any more is this another great move from the PJ or am I being too optimistic? Thanks!

I'd be interested too please..... as thought (I'm no lawyer) you charge for the max suspected if have evidence i.e murder then downscale to manslaughter...neglect...etc I would like to know definitive as thought you could not upscale unless NEW evidence came to light?
Just roll on the day we see them all in court please! (sadly I have doubts we'll see that....)
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Re: ROGATORY LETTERS, PJ INTERVIEWS, and RECONSTRUCTION UPDATE

Postby HawkEyes1 » Thu May 29, 2008 10:26 pm

Here is my translation of a French article appearing in SOS Madeleine, May 29,
2008:

Enqu├¬teurs voulaient confondre le 10├®me "Tapas"

"Le refus d'acc├¿s au contenu des messages ├®crits re├ºus par Gerry McCann avant et apr├¿s la disparition de sa fille Madeleine, ou le refus des Tapas neuf de revenir au Portugal, ne vont pas emp├¬cher les inspecteurs de progresser dans leur enqu├¬te," affirme un responsable de la Police Judiciaire apr├¿s la divulgation hier de la d├®cision du Tribunal de la Relation d'├ëvora.

Selon la m├¬me source, avec leur acc├¿s au contenu des messages ├®crits re├ºus par Gerry McCann, "les enqu├¬teurs voulaient confondre un personnage encore dans l'ombre mais que la police sait ├¬tre li├®e ├á l'affaire".

Certains inspecteurs parlent m├¬me du 10 ├®me Tapas.

L'existence d'un dixi├¿me personnage, connu de Gerry et Kate McCann, est un fait ├®galement soutenu au Royaume-Uni o├╣ un membre de l'Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) ├á confirm├® que "les officiers envoy├®s au Portugal avaient m├¬me sugg├®r├® quelques possibilit├®s parmi les britanniques qui habitent en permanence la r├®gion d'Algarve".

Hier, un arr├¬t du Tribunal de la Relation d'├ëvora est venu soutenir la d├®cision du juge d'instruction criminelle de Portim├úo, Pedro Frias, qu'avait interdit l'acc├¿s des enqu├¬teurs de la Police Judiciaire au contenu des messages ├®crits (SMS) re├ºus par Gerry McCann.

Selon le document, le papa de Madeleine McCann a re├ºu 14 messages ├®crits le 2 mai, la veille de la disparition de sa fille, au d├®part d'un num├®ro de t├®l├®phone officiellement non identifi├®. Le m├¬me portable est ├á l'origine de 4 autres messages que Gerry McCann ├á re├ºu apr├¿s la disparition.

Gerry et Kate McCann ont toujours refus├® de divulguer aux enqu├¬teurs le contenu des messages, ce que n'a pas emp├¬ch├® la police d'obtenir ces renseignements.

C'est l'utilisation du contenu de ces informations, notamment dans un proc├¿s, qui est mise en cause par la d├®cision du juge d'instruction criminelle.

Selon le m├¬me document, le premier arr├¬t de justice divulgu├® jusqu'├á pr├®sent publiquement, les investigations de la Police Judiciaire, suite ├á la disparition de Madeleine, portent bien sur l'├®ventualit├® des crimes d'abandon, mise en danger, homicide et dissimulation de cadavre.

Pour rappel, l'Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) et la police du Leicestershire, ont collabor├® dans l'enqu├¬te des autorit├®s portugaises, comme l'a confirm├®e Patricia Scotland, Ministre d'Etat et Attorney General pour l'Angleterre et le Pays de Galles.

Si la d├®cision du juge emp├¬che l'utilisation des donn├®s ant├®rieurs ├á la disparition de Madeleine, elle n'a pas emp├¬ch├® les enqu├¬teurs d'en prendre connaissance des appels et les inspecteurs savent qui ├á parl├® avec qui.

Les hommes de Gon├ºalo Amaral, aujourd'hui remplac├® par l'inspecteur Paulo Rebelo, ont eu ├®galement l'occasion de proc├®der ├á des ├®coutes t├®l├®phoniques apr├¿s la disparition de Madeleine et pendant que le couple et ses amis se trouvaient au Portugal. Une fois le couple et ses amis de retour au Royaume-Uni, la PJ attendait des autorit├®s britanniques la continuation du travail mais il est encore incertain si toutes les informations ont pu leur ├¬tre communiqu├®es.

Selon l'interpr├®tation donn├®e par le juge d'instruction criminelle du Tribunal de 1┬¬ instance de Portim├úo, Pedro Frias, ├á la l├®gislation portugaise, confirm├®e par le Tribunal de la Relation, les enqu├¬teurs peuvent uniquement utiliser les donn├®es obtenus en temps r├®el. Dans la pratique, il aurait fallu aux enqu├¬teurs avoir obtenu une autorisation avant la disparition de Madeleine.

Pedro Frias n'a pas refus├® l'utilisation ou l'acc├¿s ├á toutes les ├®coutes ou enregistrements effectu├®s dans le cadre de l'enqu├¬te, mais il n'accorde aux enqu├¬teurs le droit d'utiliser le contenu des SMS envoy├®s et re├ºus par le couple McCann avant le 3 mai 2007.

Le Minist├¿re Public et la Police Judiciaire voulaient ├®galement demander aux trois operateurs de t├®l├®phonie mobile existent au Portugal – TMN, Vodafone et Optimus – les listings sous support digital (CD ou DVD) de toutes les communications concernant le couple et ses amis pour la p├®riode du 28 avril au 9 septembre 2007.

L'urgence de faire passer l'image d'un "Tapas sept" uni et solide
L'annonce par le cabinet du Procureur G├®n├®rale de la R├®publique (PGR) de l'annulation de la reconstitution demand├® par la Police Judiciaire, indiquant que cette d├®cision ├®tait la cons├®quence du refus de quatre amis des parents de Madeleine d'effectuer leur voyage de retour ├á Praia da Luz, ├á provoqu├® un ├®norme tolet obligeant Clarence Mitchell ├á r├®agir.

Si l'annulation de la diligence n'├®tait pas une v├®ritable surprise, la confirmation par le PGR de qu'il y aurait que quatre t├®moins ├á refuser de collaborer officiellement avec les autorit├®s portugaise soul├¿ve une question : pourquoi les autres trois ont' ils accept├®, sans aucune condition, de coop├®rer avec les autorit├®s portugaises ?

La question devenant g├¬nante, surtout apr├¿s que l'information soit arriv├®e dans les m├®dias britanniques, le responsable en communication du couple McCann s'est empress├® de dire que finalement "tout le groupe ne voulait pas retourner au Portugal".

Sans jamais s'attaquer ├á la note du cabinet du Procureur, le sp├®cialiste en manipulation des m├®dias s'est attach├® ├á justifier la d├®cision du couple McCann et de ses quatre amis, voulant ├á tout prix calmer l'opinion public et faire passer l'image d'un groupe solide et uni contre la police portugaise, oubliant volontairement que l'enqu├¬te ├á la disparition de Madeleine est un travail conjoint avec la police britannique.

http://sosmaddie.dhblogs.be/archive/2008/05/28/enqueteurs-voulaient-confondre-le-10eme-tapas.html


Investigators wanted to know the 10th "Tapas"

"The refusal of allowing access to the content of messages received by Gerry McCann before and after the disappearance of his daughter, Madeleine, or the refusal of the Tapas 9 to return to Portugal, will not prevent the inspectors to make progress in their investigation," said an official of the Policia Judiciaria yesterday after the disclosure of the decision of the Court of Appeal of Evora.

According to the same source, with access to the content of messages received by Gerry McCann, "the investigators wanted to know a person, still in the shadow, but that the police knew to be linked to the case."

Some inspectors speak similarly of a 10th Tapas.

The existence of a tenth person, known to Gerry and Kate McCann, is a fact also supported in the United Kingdom, where a member of the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) has confirmed that "officers sent to Portugal had similarly suggested a few possibilities among the British who live permanently in the Algarve region."

Yesterday, the Court of the Appeal of Evora has come to support the decision of the criminal judge of instructiuon of Portimão, Pedro Frias, who had banned investigators from the Policia Juducaria in accessing the content of text messages received by Gerry McCann.

According to the document, the father of Madeleine McCann has received 14 text messages on May 2, the day before the disappearance of her daughter, from a phone number officially unidentified. The same laptop is at the root of 4 other messages that Gerry McCann received after the disappearance.

Gerry and Kate McCann have always refused to disclose to investigators the content of the messages, but that has not prevented the police to obtain this information.

It is the use of the contents of this information, especially in a trial, which is questioned by the decision of the criminal judge of instruction.

According to the same document, the first judiciary dispatch released publicly, of the investigations of the Policiaria Judiciaria Police, following the disappearance of Madeleine, carry well the possibility of crimes of abandonment, endangerment, murder and concealment of a corpse.

As a reminder, the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) and Leicestershire police have cooperated in the investigation of the Portuguese authorities, as was confirmed by Patricia Scotland, Minister of State and Attorney General for England and Wales.

If the judge's decision prevents the use of the messages prior to the disappearance of Madeleine, it has not prevented the investigators to take note of the calls, and inspectors know who talked to whom.

The men of Gonçalo Amaral, today replaced by the inspector Paulo Rebelo, also had the opportunity to conduct wiretaps after the disappearance of Madeleine and while the couple and their friends were in Portugal. Once the couple and their friends returned to the United Kingdom, the PJ waited for the British authorities to continue the work, but it is still uncertain whether all the information could be communicated to them.

According to the interpretation given by the criminal instruction judge of the First Court of Portimão, Pedro Frias, in Portuguese law, as confirmed by the Court of Appeal, investigators can only use the data obtained in real time. In practice, it would have tbeen necessary for the investigators to obtain a permit before the disappearance of Madeleine.

Pedro Frias did not refuse the use of or access to all eavesdropping or recordings made in connection with the investigation, but it doesn't allow the investigators to use the content of the text messages sent and received by the McCann couple before May 3, 2007.

The Public Ministry and the Policiara Judiciaria also wanted to ask the three operators of mobile telephone companies in Portugal - TMN, Vodafone and Optimus - for listings in digital media (CD or DVD) of all communications of the couple and friends for the period April 28 to September 9, 2007.

The urgency of getting the image of a "Tapas seven" united and strong
The announcement by the Office of the Attorney General of the Republic (PGR) of the cancellation of the reconstruction requested by the Policaria Judiciaria, indicating that this decision was the consequence of the refusal of four friends of Madeleine's parents to make the trip back to Praia da Luz, caused a huge backlash, requiring Clarence Mitchell to react.

If the cancellation of diligence was not a real surprise, the confirmation from the PGR that there are four witnesses who have refused to cooperate formally with the Portuguese authorities raises a question: why have the other three accepted, unconditionally, to cooperate with the Portuguese authorities?

The question becomes annoying, especially after that information is arriving in the British media, the responsible person for communications for the McCann couple was quick to say that finally "the entire group did not want to return to Portugal."

Without ever addressing the note of the Attorney's office, the specialist in handling the media sought to justify the decision by the couple McCann and their four friends, wanting at any price to calm public opinion and pass the image of a strong and united group against the Portuguese police, forgetting voluntarily that the investigation of the disappearance of Madeleine is a joint work with the British police.

http://sosmaddie.dhblogs.be/archive/2008/05/28/enqueteurs-voulaient-confondre-le-10eme-tapas.html

Corrected typos and one grammatical error only
Last edited by HawkEyes1 on Fri May 30, 2008 9:59 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: ROGATORY LETTERS, PJ INTERVIEWS, and RECONSTRUCTION UPDATE

Postby HawkEyes1 » Thu May 29, 2008 10:30 pm

Mobydick wrote:Hi Hawkeyes,

I have a theory, but I'm not sure about the 'law' part of it. I would appreciate if you could let me know whether I got it right or not. Thanks in advance :)

This is it:

Now that the McCanns have finally confirmed they're not going to the reconstruction, it seems that the 'ball's in the PJ's court', and from what is being reported on the papers rumour has it that the PJ may be thinking of charging the McCanns with neglect. My theory is this:

As we all know, the Mclawyers are desperate to get their hands on the police file. Is it possible that, if charged with neglect only, only information related to their neglect charges will be revealed, but nothing about the evidence they may have re murder/manslaugher? Then once the PJ get the McCanns to Portugal, more interviews may take place and more charges may be broughtwith no time for their lawyers to prepare the case or delay the process any more is this another great move from the PJ or am I being too optimistic? Thanks!


I think your theory sounds perfectly fine to me, Mobydick. If the McCanns are to be charged with neglect only, then the PJ would not have to release any other files, relating to more serious charges, such as manslaughter or murder.

But amber is also correct in her statement about the PJ needing to go for the maximum charges. But there may be extenuating circunstances, where you can charge the defendents with a lesser degree, say of neglect or abandonment of a minor, and if evidence proves subsequently that the defendents were guilty of a more serious crime, such as manslaughter/or murder, they can be charged at a later date. But it may be dependent upon what the police know and when they knew it.

I am sure the PJ must be looking carefully at the legal aspects of this case, in light of the judgment coming out of the Court of Appeal of Evora. Don't forget many of the investigators have law degrees themselves!
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Re: ROGATORY LETTERS, PJ INTERVIEWS, and RECONSTRUCTION UPDATE

Postby blossom » Fri May 30, 2008 4:33 am

Hello HawkEyes.

The article in which GM denies the 14 texts etc., it says the Prosecutor would have to prove that they intended to neglect their children. I just don't understand this at all.

How can neglect be unintentional? They left the children unattended with no adult present and with the sole purpose of going to a restaurant for dinner/drinks/games. There is no extenuating circumstance that i can see.

Doesn't the act of neglect speak for itself and prove the Prosecutor's case? :?
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Re: ROGATORY LETTERS, PJ INTERVIEWS, and RECONSTRUCTION UPDATE

Postby HawkEyes1 » Fri May 30, 2008 5:54 am

blossom wrote:Hello HawkEyes.

The article in which GM denies the 14 texts etc., it says the Prosecutor would have to prove that they intended to neglect their children. I just don't understand this at all.

How can neglect be unintentional? They left the children unattended with no adult present and with the sole purpose of going to a restaurant for dinner/drinks/games. There is no extenuating circumstance that i can see.

Doesn't the act of neglect speak for itself and prove the Prosecutor's case? :?

Unfortunately, blossom, the Criminal Court of Appeal of Evora has presented a Catch-22 situation. To have gained access to the information contained within the text messages to Gerry McCann, the PJ and the Prosecutors would have had to have known in advance that the children were going to be neglected (or abandoned), that is, before Madeleine's disappearance.

The case can still be proven but without the content of those messages.
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Re: ROGATORY LETTERS, PJ INTERVIEWS, and RECONSTRUCTION UPDATE

Postby Amber08 » Fri May 30, 2008 9:48 am

HawkEyes1 wrote:
blossom wrote:Hello HawkEyes.

The article in which GM denies the 14 texts etc., it says the Prosecutor would have to prove that they intended to neglect their children. I just don't understand this at all.

How can neglect be unintentional? They left the children unattended with no adult present and with the sole purpose of going to a restaurant for dinner/drinks/games. There is no extenuating circumstance that i can see.

Doesn't the act of neglect speak for itself and prove the Prosecutor's case? :?

Unfortunately, blossom, the Criminal Court of Appeal of Evora has presented a Catch-22 situation. To have gained access to the information contained within the text messages to Gerry McCann, the PJ and the Prosecutors would have had to have known in advance that the children were going to be neglected (or abandoned), that is, before Madeleine's disappearance.

The case can still be proven but without the content of those messages.

Thanks Hawkeyes
My partner passed me a little blue book: RIPA Act 2000 (don't know if it's updated since) but on first page says in table form: Interception of any communication with the consent of both parties (without consent in the UK warrant frome Home Secretary) section 5 (may only be used in serious crime)
you've explained how this stands in Portugal BUT from a layman (or woman!) point of view surely comes down to basic co-operation i.e.....hand over your phones and itemised bills as after all you want your daughter back :!: I cannot understand anyone not cooperating unless they have something to hide which obviously the last years events all indicate that way.... :(
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Re: ROGATORY LETTERS, PJ INTERVIEWS, and RECONSTRUCTION UPDATE

Postby HawkEyes1 » Fri May 30, 2008 10:10 am

Amber08 wrote: ...My partner passed me a little blue book: RIPA Act 2000 (don't know if it's updated since) but on first page says in table form: Interception of any communication with the consent of both parties (without consent in the UK warrant frome Home Secretary) section 5 (may only be used in serious crime)
you've explained how this stands in Portugal BUT from a layman (or woman!) point of view surely comes down to basic co-operation i.e.....hand over your phones and itemised bills as after all you want your daughter back :!: I cannot understand anyone not cooperating unless they have something to hide which obviously the last years events all indicate that way.... :(


I agree, amber. I think Gerry McCann's denial and/or refusal to cooperate over these calls and text messages says it all!
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