What is more Important to us as Posters our egos or Maddy

Madeleine Beth McCann went missing from PDL in Portugal on the 3rd May 2007, there are so many unanswered questions, please discuss

Re: What is more Important to us as Posters our egos or Maddy

Postby Fenugreek » Fri May 30, 2008 4:22 pm

RRR, can I suggest you contact posters that you distrust by pm and see what they have to say. You'd be surprised. I have been.
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Re: What is more Important to us as Posters our egos or Maddy

Postby RRR » Fri May 30, 2008 4:27 pm

Fenugreek wrote:RRR, can I suggest you contact posters that you distrust by pm and see what they have to say. You'd be surprised. I have been.


Fenugreek - in fact I have tried that, and got nowhere. A fraud is still a fraud, whether posting fraudulence on a forum or in an email.
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Re: What is more Important to us as Posters our egos or Maddy

Postby almostgothic » Fri May 30, 2008 4:30 pm

RRR - that was a great post. I agree with every word.
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Re: What is more Important to us as Posters our egos or Maddy

Postby Middlemarch » Fri May 30, 2008 4:32 pm

RRR's post is one of the most sensible I have seen on this forum recently.

I have had a great deal of difficulty sorting out why anyone who writes enigmatically and claims to have a source is automatically elevated to some sort of special status. Posters begin to flock round certain posters, and get very annoyed if anyone questions the veracity of the claims.

I am here because I care about what happened to Madeleine McCann, but I don't think we ought to fool ourselves. We are also here because of the way her parents dealt with her disappearance. They make wild claims that beggar belief and demand absolute, unquestioning acceptance of what they say, no matter how absurd. Anyone who questions them is accused of having interests other than those of Madeleine at heart.

The parallel between the two situations is so glaringly evident that it really does puzzle me why people who were so unwilling to buy one set of stories are so ready to accept, without question, a different set.
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Re: What is more Important to us as Posters our egos or Maddy

Postby Ismellarat » Fri May 30, 2008 4:36 pm

almostgothic wrote:RRR - that was a great post. I agree with every word.



Astonishing post..

RRR- respect...

If we start with doubts and might end up with certainties

If we start with certainties we'll end up with doubts

and anyone who offers up 'certainties/facts/sources' should be viewed with suspicion IMO
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Re: What is more Important to us as Posters our egos or Maddy

Postby retribution » Fri May 30, 2008 4:40 pm

RRR wrote:I agree with much of the OP, and much of what posters have written in reply to it. But on certain points I profoundly disagree.

Let's assume we all care about the truth - I'm sure most of us do. So any attempt to distract from this (or the search for it), or to bolster fragile egos, etc. is held in contempt. So when some people make claims, we have a duty to make sure we protect this truth, or the search for it, by demanding that these claims be proved to be valid. When the sources of the claims remain obscure, and no proof is provided, and when predictions based on these so-called sources are shown by events to be plain wrong, and when "information" is bizarrely served out in as confusing and ambiguous a manner as possible (thus producing endless conjecture), and when the OP's opinions become confusingly blurred with his alleged information, then we should feel justified in not only dismissing the person making the claims as a probable fraud, but even more importantly, questioning their motives in making these claims.

Anything less than this is being irresponsible: it turns the forum into a laughing stock, and helps to invalidate by association the numerous sensible threads and hard facts. Some posters claim it doesn't matter - that if such people turn out to be hoaxers, then it will all have been "a good laugh". I fail to see the joke, in such a tragic case as this.

The idea that members of the investigating police force in the UK are, unprecedentedly, leaking vital information to a member of this forum, of all places, at barbecues and suchlike, jeopardising the entire case as well as their careers, in one of the biggest media events of recent years, is laughable. And that this information should be couched in murky and ambiguous terms as well, when it was supposedly leaked on the orders of their superiors to help clarify and to reveal what wasn't being revealed elsewhere, is more laughable still (as well being illogical).

Yet questioning the position of certain posters is seen as troll-like, disruptive, distraction tactics, obviously from people in the pay of Team McCann, etc. As most of the posters doing the questioning (including myself) have been on this and the Mirror Forum from almost the beginning, I think any troll-like tendencies would have come out by now. Could it be that these people are the ones who have the greatest respect for the pursuit of the truth in this case, and so protect it more tenaciously than most? Why else would they still be around?

Posters on this thread make frequent references to not fighting amongst ourselves, and all trying to get at the truth together. I would argue that it's the people making the preposterous claims who are the most divisive; if they were genuine, they'd merely post the information in full, and let it rest. People could then take it or leave it. But no - it's given out in little helpings, increasingly mysteriously, encouraging constant questioning form the gullible and eliciting in turn evasive or teasing replies.

Almost uniquely among posters here, I've actually been to PdL; and almost uniquely, I spent 2 weeks there round the 100-day mark during those fairly sensational scenes. I could have eked out the few bits of information I got for months; what I did was merely post up all my impressions and experiences, and a few people asked some specific questions later (the replies to most of which were: I haven't a clue). I had no wish no bolster my ego, become a cult leader, or feed enigmatic titbits to the masses, and this was easily achieved merely by posting everything at once and leaving it at that.

So - I respect the truth a lot more than many here seem to, and hence my protectiveness towards it when posters using the familiar and well documented tactics of frauds everywhere seek to distract from it towards themselves. The same goes for my fellow-questioners of sources and wild claims. As long as I'm on this forum I'm going to try to protect the truth from the real disruptors and trolls, who disguise themselves as keepers of some privileged version of the truth but who can't back it up. These are the real disruptors, continually bleating about it not being about themselves while constantly drip-feeding the masses with their bits of "knowledge".

I have a suggestion - to avoid further arguments and insults and divisions, such people should just, all in one go, reveal every last bit of information they have, in one post (as I did) and leave it at that. There would then be no need for the constant questioning and attention. As well as avoiding divisiveness, this would test their genuineness. And will they do it? Don't hold your breath.



A remarkably insightful post which says everything I, too, believe. Well done, RRR, well done indeed.
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Re: What is more Important to us as Posters our egos or Maddy

Postby sentinel » Fri May 30, 2008 4:44 pm

RRR wrote:I agree with much of the OP, and much of what posters have written in reply to it. But on certain points I profoundly disagree.

Let's assume we all care about the truth - I'm sure most of us do. So any attempt to distract from this (or the search for it), or to bolster fragile egos, etc. is held in contempt. So when some people make claims, we have a duty to make sure we protect this truth, or the search for it, by demanding that these claims be proved to be valid. When the sources of the claims remain obscure, and no proof is provided, and when predictions based on these so-called sources are shown by events to be plain wrong, and when "information" is bizarrely served out in as confusing and ambiguous a manner as possible (thus producing endless conjecture), and when the OP's opinions become confusingly blurred with his alleged information, then we should feel justified in not only dismissing the person making the claims as a probable fraud, but even more importantly, questioning their motives in making these claims.

Anything less than this is being irresponsible: it turns the forum into a laughing stock, and helps to invalidate by association the numerous sensible threads and hard facts. Some posters claim it doesn't matter - that if such people turn out to be hoaxers, then it will all have been "a good laugh". I fail to see the joke, in such a tragic case as this.

The idea that members of the investigating police force in the UK are, unprecedentedly, leaking vital information to a member of this forum, of all places, at barbecues and suchlike, jeopardising the entire case as well as their careers, in one of the biggest media events of recent years, is laughable. And that this information should be couched in murky and ambiguous terms as well, when it was supposedly leaked on the orders of their superiors to help clarify and to reveal what wasn't being revealed elsewhere, is more laughable still (as well being illogical).

Yet questioning the position of certain posters is seen as troll-like, disruptive, distraction tactics, obviously from people in the pay of Team McCann, etc. As most of the posters doing the questioning (including myself) have been on this and the Mirror Forum from almost the beginning, I think any troll-like tendencies would have come out by now. Could it be that these people are the ones who have the greatest respect for the pursuit of the truth in this case, and so protect it more tenaciously than most? Why else would they still be around?

Posters on this thread make frequent references to not fighting amongst ourselves, and all trying to get at the truth together. I would argue that it's the people making the preposterous claims who are the most divisive; if they were genuine, they'd merely post the information in full, and let it rest. People could then take it or leave it. But no - it's given out in little helpings, increasingly mysteriously, encouraging constant questioning form the gullible and eliciting in turn evasive or teasing replies.

Almost uniquely among posters here, I've actually been to PdL; and almost uniquely, I spent 2 weeks there round the 100-day mark during those fairly sensational scenes. I could have eked out the few bits of information I got for months; what I did was merely post up all my impressions and experiences, and a few people asked some specific questions later (the replies to most of which were: I haven't a clue). I had no wish no bolster my ego, become a cult leader, or feed enigmatic titbits to the masses, and this was easily achieved merely by posting everything at once and leaving it at that.

So - I respect the truth a lot more than many here seem to, and hence my protectiveness towards it when posters using the familiar and well documented tactics of frauds everywhere seek to distract from it towards themselves. The same goes for my fellow-questioners of sources and wild claims. As long as I'm on this forum I'm going to try to protect the truth from the real disruptors and trolls, who disguise themselves as keepers of some privileged version of the truth but who can't back it up. These are the real disruptors, continually bleating about it not being about themselves while constantly drip-feeding the masses with their bits of "knowledge".

I have a suggestion - to avoid further arguments and insults and divisions, such people should just, all in one go, reveal every last bit of information they have, in one post (as I did) and leave it at that. There would then be no need for the constant questioning and attention. As well as avoiding divisiveness, this would test their genuineness. And will they do it? Don't hold your breath.



yes, well said triple R
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Re: What is more Important to us as Posters our egos or Maddy

Postby FlyingFig » Fri May 30, 2008 4:54 pm

I'm a reader and a lurker more than an active participant but I wanted to congratulate RRR on an excellent post, very well said.
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