What is more Important to us as Posters our egos or Maddy

Madeleine Beth McCann went missing from PDL in Portugal on the 3rd May 2007, there are so many unanswered questions, please discuss

Re: What is more Important to us as Posters our egos or Maddy

Postby lst1976 » Fri May 30, 2008 8:29 am

Well said BJR

Bjr and Team your doing a fantastic job :)
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Re: What is more Important to us as Posters our egos or Maddy

Postby sentinel » Fri May 30, 2008 8:44 am

mirameauII wrote:I do not agree
it is wrong to cover people who are refering on sources in order to create a "cheerleadership" -
the problem is, that people need cheerleaders. (poor kant, poor nietzsche, we're still living in dark times)
this fact has nothing to do with search for truth but with playing rules at costs of real living people. it does not help madeleine or justice. user can write their ideas without refering on sources as long as nobody knows who the user is, what his agenda my be and if the sources exists.
this board made a mistake when it did not ask coldwater to write in his own name.
dream on...


at the risk of being he 2nd fly in the ointment, i think the gist of BJR's post is good, in that the subject is more important than the people.

However, it is incredibly hypocritical to ban one poster for posting his thoughts and put another on a pedestal for doing the same (you all know who i mean).
"We, with Coldwater's help, have let our imaginations run wild"
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Re: What is more Important to us as Posters our egos or Maddy

Postby Granuaile » Fri May 30, 2008 9:00 am

BJR – it was so good this morning to read your post first thing, as it reflects so much the priorities and feelings of so many of us and the reasons we are here. I thought I would take the liberty of repeating some of your thoughts to keep them from getting submerged.

[Quote] "I was blessed with a child and I will do whatever is my power to protect. .Because I love him and it is an unconditional love.

Many people have been drawn together, just like me, to find out what happened to poor Madeleine. But what holds us all together is Madeleine, the child that in all our opinions was neglected by her parents and a child we seek justice for. If the McCanns are not responsible for Madeleine's demise, let them be held accountable for putting her in harms way, remember Madeleine never asked to be left alone, she had no option."

Please don't let those that want to cause a rift between posters succeed. Lets stick together and find justice and above all make sure those that want to divide and conquer do not succeed. And lets all be united in the fact this is wrong, leaving children alone is wrong, and above all be here for any other child that is put in the same position as Madeleine was."
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Re: What is more Important to us as Posters our egos or Maddy

Postby earthspirit » Fri May 30, 2008 9:21 am

what an excellent post!

i agree totally - there are too many people here are abusive without any real reason

now personally it does not trouble me when i get insulted or ridiculed and accept that my manner of posting may be irritating to some people - c'est la vie

however i know that many people on here are scared to appear to support the person being ridiculed online - there is no need for internet abuse and just wonder if the same people dishing out the dirt would behave like this face to face or we each knew the identity of each other

madeleine most likely died as a result of her parents bahaviour whatever that really means

they have escaped justice up till now but hopefully justice will prevail

more than anything i hate the thought of madeleine being dumped without a proper grave - forgotten & lost - in the uk we are mainly christian but other religions too have proper respect for their dead - she needs a grave needs to be revered like the dead deserve.

she lost her little life and here we have people arguing over trivia mainly

stop for a moment and look at yourselves fighting on some threads.

thats why i dont as a rule get into the jokes etc - someone said that police etc will make jokes to cope with the traumas they have to deal with - thats ok but some of the threads on here are really quite absurd in the mockery they make of the people they are insulting
earthspirit_truthseeker on the mirror forum

always searching for the truth and for now, for madeleine, who never got to be 4
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Re: What is more Important to us as Posters our egos or Maddy

Postby marian » Fri May 30, 2008 9:30 am

Sentinel I don't know to whom you are referring, but it is a true thing you say.

Banning one poster for posting thoughts and encouraging another does smack of hypocrisy.

I hope it has not happened on 3A.
"whoever she's with she'll be giving them their tuppenceworth"
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Re: What is more Important to us as Posters our egos or Maddy

Postby mrsgaz » Fri May 30, 2008 9:33 am

Agree entirely.

Think this should also apply to the Drs McCann - as their egos are more important.

I hate the threads where there are personal attacks and sillyness taking over. Reasoned debate and reasons why people disagree etc are the purpose of forums (in my opinion) and egos should not cloud the search for Madeleine (what is left of her).

The attacks and egos need to be put aside in the search for the truth.
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Re: What is more Important to us as Posters our egos or Maddy

Postby Dimsie » Fri May 30, 2008 9:49 am

How hard can it be to 'play nice'? Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and if someone claims to have sources that's their right - maybe they have, maybe they haven't - it's up to each person here to make their own decision about who or what they choose to believe.

The papers keep giving us the latest 'news' - almost always from unnamed sources, but most people take these particular sources seriously. If we could just keep in mind that we can't automatically believe everything we read, be it from the media or other posters, we should be ok. Discuss and debate what's reported (if we didn't the forum would be pretty bare) but remember that most of it is unconfirmed speculation.

At the end of the day it's getting truth and justice for Madeleine that matters, not our own egos or silly arguments. I know people get frustrated at times, especially when the whole thing seems to slow down and we don't know what might happen next but just wish something would, but this is no reason to turn on one another.
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Re: What is more Important to us as Posters our egos or Maddy

Postby MalCat » Fri May 30, 2008 10:18 am

Many thanks bjr. And for all your hard work. This is the only properly moderated forum I've ever come across. May it prosper.
Dimsie is right - the temptation to have a go is sometimes hard to resist, so if I've gone beyond what's normally acceptable in forum debate and caused real offence, please accept my apologies.
Truth and justice for the child who never made it to her fourth birthday.
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Re: What is more Important to us as Posters our egos or Maddy

Postby mickahoine » Fri May 30, 2008 10:58 am

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
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Re: What is more Important to us as Posters our egos or Maddy

Postby Libra Lady » Fri May 30, 2008 11:15 am

Very well said bjr.

I rely on The Three Arguidos for news of what is happening in this case, we get very little in Australia.

So please folks be nice even if you do disagree.
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Re: What is more Important to us as Posters our egos or Maddy

Postby flossy07 » Fri May 30, 2008 12:39 pm

Bjr, thanks for a lovely thread, its so true about what you say and no matter if your children are 3 or 30 at a drop of a hat if they need you, your there for them.The love you have for your child doesn,t fade as that child gets older, if any thing it gets stronger, and we will always protect our children from danger.
All us parents have had to go thru (or will have to go thru) the worry of their first day at school,simple things like watching them learn to ride a bike for the first time, then when they learn, you worry when they are out on their bikes. The school trips i always used to worry they might get lost or seperated from the group,when they get older the worry of them going out with mates, endless night,s waiting up for them, with wild thought,s going round and round in your head if they were,nt home the minute they were expected.
Then going to uni, i cant remember when i stopped crying when my daughter went to uni, constantly phoning her to see that she was o.k.Being a parent never stops,you never stop worrying, and you never stop loving them, to me children are a gift from god, they are your life and your life revolves around them.And you no what i wouldnt have wanted it any other way.

God bless madeleine who will never be able to do all these things, we are all here to get justice for her, and i am pleased we have this forum to come to, we have all came too far to let anyone divide us .

Lets stay united as a forum, and keep fighting for justice for madeleine mccann.
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Re: What is more Important to us as Posters our egos or Maddy

Postby SUGARBABE » Fri May 30, 2008 12:46 pm

I have never been able to understand why people who are on the same side of the fence continue to attack and deride other posters.
We are all here for the good common cause - which is about Madeleine. So Bjr, thank you for that - most beautifully put- about helping and guiding each other. Well said.
We are passionate about finding out the truth for Madeleine!
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Re: What is more Important to us as Posters our egos or Maddy

Postby Dove » Fri May 30, 2008 1:35 pm

brj
I found what you said very moving and I'm so glad that you said it. I could identify with all of what you said as I'm a mother too. We hear so much nowadays of parents wrapping their children in cottonwool, but this I think is unfair, I'm of the opinion that we owe our children the proper care and love to help them to develop, as they grow and at the right time we release them further into the world, but NOT while they don't have the tools to cope and to be safe. Life HAS changed and the world isn't as safe as it was when I was a child, we have to be mindful of this, not ignore it as some in society would have us do. My boy's are now in their twenties but although they manage well, they know that they only have to lift the phone or come round and I'll be there for them even now, as we're ALL vulnerable up to a point.
I also was glad of your focus on Madeleine in relation to our egos, I think that many people want answers about what happened to her, there will be theories, people who have things to tell us, perhaps we should listen and be polite enough to reserve judgement rather than to fuel some of the hatred that the trolls would like us to fling around at eachother.
If we could develop some love in our society, many of these terrible things wouldn't happen.
Be that which you would make others.

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Re: What is more Important to us as Posters our egos or Maddy

Postby isis » Fri May 30, 2008 3:11 pm

:wave: for bjr and mods( sorry bout the waving but learned to do it yesterday and im sure il get bored soon) If we turn on each other and bicker then madeleine looses her voice. This is agreat forum and is full of information and seeking minds, let us not be ruined by a divide and conquer mentality. IM a mother of 3 and parenting does not come with a job description nor a handbook its 99% instinct.
truth is always a casualty.
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Re: What is more Important to us as Posters our egos or Maddy

Postby RRR » Fri May 30, 2008 4:16 pm

I agree with much of the OP, and much of what posters have written in reply to it. But on certain points I profoundly disagree.

Let's assume we all care about the truth - I'm sure most of us do. So any attempt to distract from this (or the search for it), or to bolster fragile egos, etc. is held in contempt. So when some people make claims, we have a duty to make sure we protect this truth, or the search for it, by demanding that these claims be proved to be valid. When the sources of the claims remain obscure, and no proof is provided, and when predictions based on these so-called sources are shown by events to be plain wrong, and when "information" is bizarrely served out in as confusing and ambiguous a manner as possible (thus producing endless conjecture), and when the OP's opinions become confusingly blurred with his alleged information, then we should feel justified in not only dismissing the person making the claims as a probable fraud, but even more importantly, questioning their motives in making these claims.

Anything less than this is being irresponsible: it turns the forum into a laughing stock, and helps to invalidate by association the numerous sensible threads and hard facts. Some posters claim it doesn't matter - that if such people turn out to be hoaxers, then it will all have been "a good laugh". I fail to see the joke, in such a tragic case as this.

The idea that members of the investigating police force in the UK are, unprecedentedly, leaking vital information to a member of this forum, of all places, at barbecues and suchlike, jeopardising the entire case as well as their careers, in one of the biggest media events of recent years, is laughable. And that this information should be couched in murky and ambiguous terms as well, when it was supposedly leaked on the orders of their superiors to help clarify and to reveal what wasn't being revealed elsewhere, is more laughable still (as well being illogical).

Yet questioning the position of certain posters is seen as troll-like, disruptive, distraction tactics, obviously from people in the pay of Team McCann, etc. As most of the posters doing the questioning (including myself) have been on this and the Mirror Forum from almost the beginning, I think any troll-like tendencies would have come out by now. Could it be that these people are the ones who have the greatest respect for the pursuit of the truth in this case, and so protect it more tenaciously than most? Why else would they still be around?

Posters on this thread make frequent references to not fighting amongst ourselves, and all trying to get at the truth together. I would argue that it's the people making the preposterous claims who are the most divisive; if they were genuine, they'd merely post the information in full, and let it rest. People could then take it or leave it. But no - it's given out in little helpings, increasingly mysteriously, encouraging constant questioning form the gullible and eliciting in turn evasive or teasing replies.

Almost uniquely among posters here, I've actually been to PdL; and almost uniquely, I spent 2 weeks there round the 100-day mark during those fairly sensational scenes. I could have eked out the few bits of information I got for months; what I did was merely post up all my impressions and experiences, and a few people asked some specific questions later (the replies to most of which were: I haven't a clue). I had no wish no bolster my ego, become a cult leader, or feed enigmatic titbits to the masses, and this was easily achieved merely by posting everything at once and leaving it at that.

So - I respect the truth a lot more than many here seem to, and hence my protectiveness towards it when posters using the familiar and well documented tactics of frauds everywhere seek to distract from it towards themselves. The same goes for my fellow-questioners of sources and wild claims. As long as I'm on this forum I'm going to try to protect the truth from the real disruptors and trolls, who disguise themselves as keepers of some privileged version of the truth but who can't back it up. These are the real disruptors, continually bleating about it not being about themselves while constantly drip-feeding the masses with their bits of "knowledge".

I have a suggestion - to avoid further arguments and insults and divisions, such people should just, all in one go, reveal every last bit of information they have, in one post (as I did) and leave it at that. There would then be no need for the constant questioning and attention. As well as avoiding divisiveness, this would test their genuineness. And will they do it? Don't hold your breath.
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