24 Horas - 29/5/2008

Madeleine Beth McCann went missing from PDL in Portugal on the 3rd May 2007, there are so many unanswered questions, please discuss

Re: 24 Horas - 29/5/2008

Postby Meadow » Thu May 29, 2008 4:45 pm

UK press were leading with headlines: Abduction on
4th May at 12.0 am

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/global/main. ... gal104.xml
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Re: 24 Horas - 29/5/2008

Postby Meadow » Thu May 29, 2008 4:48 pm

Also this, translation by Astro, with thanks.


Thought you all might want to read this article in the Correio da Manhã today:

Alípio Ribeiro, national director of Polícia Judiciária, received a call from John Buck, british ambassador in Portugal, on the night Madeleine disapeared from the Ocean Club, on May 3rd..

Around 23h00, roughly two hours after the child's disppearance had been communicated to the police, Alípio Ribeiro had to interrupt a private dinner in order to listen to the diplomat. That phone call was the first sign that the british were very keen on accompannyng closely the PJ's actions, and in forcing the investigations to follow the kidnap theory.

"The PJ lost too much time investigating the kidnap", a source connected to the investigation told CM. The pressure of the british diplomacy apparently only slowed down after the arrival in Portugal of british police agents who gave support to the redirectioning of the investigation to the possibility of murder. The biological evidence found in the apartment were decisive in the changing the inquiry's direction, or, at least, for the PJ to admit publiclly that change

The decision to further investigate the possibility of the child's death in the Ocean Club – and in consequence the reeavaluation of the depositions made by the parents and their friends – was also taken taking the opinions of the british police agents into consideration. The interview that Oleg├írio Sousa gave yesterday to BBC and ITN was done in accordance with those agents.

The choice of these two television channels was motivated by the indignation that the british agents themselves felt regarding the accusations that have been made by the british press to the PJ. The BBC e ITN have been treating this case with more distance and imparciallity, and that was the reason for which they were priviledged tothe interview.

Olegário Sousa admitted for the first time in public the possibility of Madeleine being dead. A position that leaves the McCanns at the center investigations, a situation that is being managed "with soft gloves" by the portuguese police.

The couple has benefitted from the help of powerfull friends. The first spokesperson for the McCanns, Clarence Mitchell, who organized the several trips Maddie's parents did over various countries, is now an aide of Gordon Brown.

Brown supported the Maddie cause from the begining, because Jill Renwick, a long time friend of the couple, is neighbour of Jonh Brown, brother of the british prime-minister.

....................
There are so many differing timelines.

Even today, we are getting 10.30 check by Kate McCann and police called at 11.45pm

So there is something wrong with the timeline in the public domain.
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Re: 24 Horas - 29/5/2008

Postby blossom » Thu May 29, 2008 4:58 pm

Norah wrote:
blossom wrote:Did Gerry McCann really do his 'check"?

What if he just told Kate he did it and that was actually his routine?

What if he talked with JW but had not actually 'checked' or seen M before or after?

What if he just feeds Kate with a lot of BS?

What if Kate still doesn't know that he didn't actually see M. - he just didn't want them to wake up and he had his mind on a grand finale to the evening, with Kate?


What IF never makes a case. It's assumed drawn on non-real situation and as such in itself in any given philosophic study of course of interest. BUT purely as a speculation of what could have happened had the facts and situations been other than they were.


I wasn't making a case! I was just speculating like everyone else on the forum.

I thought Gerry's 'i looked down at her and thought how beautiful she was' or some such thing, was very contrived and unnatural as if he wanted to emphazise that he actually saw her. What bloke thinks like that, although we could wish?!!! It has often ocurred to me that his visual 'check' has no corroboration whatsoever.

My thinking is probably influenced by a former partner who lied easily without batting an eyelid. He had the ability to make things up as he went along and think fast on his feet.
A smooth operator. Gerry reminds me of him.
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Re: 24 Horas - 29/5/2008

Postby TimH » Thu May 29, 2008 5:21 pm

mercedes2 wrote:There are reports that state the McCanns attended the Paynes wedding in Italy(2003?)


I've done a search on this and the only place I can find as a "source", rather than posters simply repeating it, is in the "Beyond the Smears" article. And Smith doesn't actually specifically say the McCanns were there...he refers to the "group" being together for the first time since the wedding in Italy.

Articles I read in the very early days seemed to indicate the McCanns connections to JT/O'Brien were close, due to their time in Amsterdam and JT's IVF pregnancy at the same time Kate was pregnant with the twins. The link to Oldfield was presented as Gerry's assistance with the malpractice claim. The Paynes were presented as linked through the others, but not directly to Kate and Gerry.

IMO, he leaves this open to speculation. In one breath he implies they all have a close, direct link but never goes on to show where.

I have always found it strange the Paynes were the only ones to stay behind to support the McCanns, and that Payne was the only one who helped Gerry search for a short time in the early hours. The rest not only didn't help search, they left Portugual immediately.

I've always thought if any of the group didn't have direct knowledge of what the McCanns were up to, it was the Paynes.

It could be Fiona Payne was talked into thinking she actually saw Murat that night...Gerry and the others "helpfully" going through her recall with her. Diane Webster (her mother) may be the key to why the Paynes are the only ones agreeing to help with the reconstruction. With her life experience (due to age), could be she has been having fits that her daughter would put herself and the grandchild into jeopardy simply to help out "friends" who don't deserve it. Diane Webster could be aware nothing adds up in this case but doesn't know anymore than we do. And insisted Fiona and spouse completely cooperate with the authorities.

In the end, it will be interesting to know who the main players are in the cover-up of what happened.
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Re: 24 Horas - 29/5/2008

Postby utahagen » Thu May 29, 2008 5:41 pm

Tim H wrote: "I have always found it strange the Paynes were the only ones to stay behind to support the McCanns, and that Payne was the only one who helped Gerry search for a short time in the early hours. The rest not only didn't help search, they left Portugual immediately.

I've always thought if any of the group didn't have direct knowledge of what the McCanns were up to, it was the Paynes."

Actually, Payne's willingness to comfort Gerry and help him search leads me to the opposite conclusion of yours: it sounds like Payne believed Madeleine had been abducted, whereas the other Tapas Seven knew it was a charade, which is why they didn't bother searching.
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Re: 24 Horas - 29/5/2008

Postby Marianna » Thu May 29, 2008 5:53 pm

Did anyone read somewhere that the reason Diane Webster didn't react was because she "thought they were playing one of their (silly) games" ???
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Re: 24 Horas - 29/5/2008

Postby TimH » Thu May 29, 2008 6:01 pm

utahagen wrote:Tim H wrote: "I have always found it strange the Paynes were the only ones to stay behind to support the McCanns, and that Payne was the only one who helped Gerry search for a short time in the early hours. The rest not only didn't help search, they left Portugual immediately.

I've always thought if any of the group didn't have direct knowledge of what the McCanns were up to, it was the Paynes."

Actually, Payne's willingness to comfort Gerry and help him search leads me to the opposite conclusion of yours: it sounds like Payne believed Madeleine had been abducted, whereas the other Tapas Seven knew it was a charade, which is why they didn't bother searching.


That's exactly what I meant...the Paynes originally believed the abduction claim. I wonder when they began to have doubts, and I wonder if they got a hard push from Grandma Webster to extricate themselves from this mess.

I also wonder if we will ever hear from Grandma Webster. If it was one of my kids involved in something like this and innocent of any wrong doing, I'd be in a black rage at the McCanns, have good lawyers backing them, and would have had to have had my lips sewn shut to keep from going public with what I knew.
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Re: 24 Horas - 29/5/2008

Postby Valleyman » Thu May 29, 2008 6:54 pm

Just bumping a few threads to get sensible discussion back on the agenda and move Debunker into the backwate
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Re: 24 Horas - 29/5/2008

Postby beachy » Thu May 29, 2008 7:57 pm

Thanks, Li.

Well, this is what I was suggesting in my "Make Them Arguidos, PJ" thread the other day - the Oldfields and Tanner/O'Brien could (and in my opinion should) be charged with neglect. Apparently the same thing had occurred to them, too.
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Re: 24 Horas - 29/5/2008

Postby mexx » Thu May 29, 2008 8:03 pm

Marianna wrote:Did anyone read somewhere that the reason Diane Webster didn't react was because she "thought they were playing one of their (silly) games" ???



Yes, I read that.
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Re: 24 Horas - 29/5/2008

Postby Arguida » Thu May 29, 2008 8:05 pm

Not sure you can charge the Tanner's with neglect. If Jane arrived late and O'Brian left the table and was gone most of the night then how can u say someone was not looking after their children. It seems more like they were taking turns.
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Re: 24 Horas - 29/5/2008

Postby roshea » Thu May 29, 2008 8:06 pm

mexx wrote:
Marianna wrote:Did anyone read somewhere that the reason Diane Webster didn't react was because she "thought they were playing one of their (silly) games" ???



Yes, I read that.


Yep, me too! :bounce:

Any idea of what she could possibly have meant?, bothered me for a long time this.
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Re: 24 Horas - 29/5/2008

Postby mickey1 » Thu May 29, 2008 8:11 pm

roshea wrote:
mexx wrote:
Marianna wrote:Did anyone read somewhere that the reason Diane Webster didn't react was because she "thought they were playing one of their (silly) games" ???



Yes, I read that.


Yep, me too! :bounce:

Any idea of what she could possibly have meant?, bothered me for a long time this.


Yep I remember too. She must have been used to it then.

And if this was an example of a 'silly game' what the bluddy hell were the other games like :shock: :shock:
"Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never - in nothing, great or small, large or petty - never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense" [Winston Churchill]
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Re: 24 Horas - 29/5/2008

Postby free3 » Thu May 29, 2008 8:15 pm

roshea wrote:
mexx wrote:
Marianna wrote:Did anyone read somewhere that the reason Diane Webster didn't react was because she "thought they were playing one of their (silly) games" ???



Yes, I read that.


Yep, me too! :bounce:

Any idea of what she could possibly have meant?, bothered me for a long time this.

which is why i say the paynes have no idea what happened to maddie, i think she ment maddie hideing, and kate making a big, oh look at me, thing about it. a load of cr.ap.
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Re: 24 Horas - 29/5/2008

Postby LUCIAN DEVILLE » Thu May 29, 2008 8:15 pm

cheers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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