24 Horas - 29/5/2008

Madeleine Beth McCann went missing from PDL in Portugal on the 3rd May 2007, there are so many unanswered questions, please discuss

24 Horas - 29/5/2008

Postby Li » Thu May 29, 2008 3:11 am

Afraid of being constituted arguidos

The other two couples that left the children in the Ocean Club were afraid by the fact that the Portuguese law previews a penalty till 10 years in jail to those that abandon minors

Text Carlos Tomás

Two couples refused to return to Portugal to cooperate with the PJ in the reenactment of the 3rd of May of 2007. Amongst the motives to refuse, the 24 Horas discovered that it was the fact that Jane Tanner, Russel O'Brien, Rachel and Matthew Oldfield were afraid of being constituted arguidos.
From the group of nine people that dinned in the Tapas Bar in the night of the disappearance, apart from Maddie's parents these were the couples that had children. And also them left the children alone in the apartments of the Ocean Club - according to the article 138┬║ of the Penal Code, that constitutes a crime that can be punishable with ten years in jail.
"They made several demands, from a special airplane to a five star hotel. The last that they demanded was not to be constituted arguidos, whilst the McCanns demanded exactly the contrary. According to our law that is impossible to guarantee", explained to the 24 Horas a judicial responsible connected to the process.
According to testimonies collected by the PJ in the Tapas Bar, only Russel O'Brien and Gerry McCann left the restaurant between 19,00 and 22,00 hours the period that the authorities believe the child went missing.
"The refusal of the friends to return to Portugal is unbelievable. Only three said they would come", David Payne, Dianne Webster and Fiona, said the same source.
To note that the depositions of Fiona Payne and her husband are considered fundamental to elaborate the accusation that is almost concluded.

Facts

Calm

Diane Webster, 63 years old, was the most calm person of the group. After Kate entered the Bar screaming "they've taken her", she was calm and serene.

Reservation

The reservation of the apartments of the Ocean Club - made through the Internet - was done by David Payne one of the witnesses that was available to return to Portugal.

Three consistent versions

The investigators of the PJ that are conducting Maddie's case, coordinated by Paulo Rebelo and Guilhermino Encarnação, already analysed the principal depositions collected in Leicester, England. The ones that have consistency, are the ones of David and Fiona Payne and Diane Webster, the 24 Horas discovered. All the other depositions present several contradictions or did not advance anything important to the case. However the depositions of more than 50 persons that spent holidays in the Ocean Club in that date and live in England, are still being analysed.
According to the depositions of these three friends of the McCanns from 18,00 hours onwards none of them saw Maddie, although she was extremely active and liked to be with the group. The only person that says that went to see the child after 21,00 hours is her father Gerry that confessed that he was talking for several minutes with a friend near the door of the flat and after that only his wife Kate that gave the alarm of the disappearance after 22,30 hours. The authorities were only called near 23,45 hours.
http://www.24horasnewspaper.com/total.p ... 55&link=11
Last edited by Li on Thu May 29, 2008 3:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 24 Horas - 29/5/2008

Postby saxoblue » Thu May 29, 2008 3:15 am

thank you LI



so they have been named the ones that didn't want to go

and the ones that did ,wonder if we will get that news today or tomorrow on the news ?

23.45 police called, thats even later than i thought i have read before.
Last edited by saxoblue on Thu May 29, 2008 3:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 24 Horas - 29/5/2008

Postby xklamation » Thu May 29, 2008 3:20 am

Obrigada Li.
"They're so conditioned that they practically can't help behaving as they ought to behave. And if anything should go wrong, there's soma." Aldous Huxley, Brave New World (1932)
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Re: 24 Horas - 29/5/2008

Postby weissnicht » Thu May 29, 2008 3:28 am

Thank you Li :D
According to testimonies collected by the PJ in the Tapas Bar, only Russel O'Brien and Gerry McCann left the restaurant during the 19,00 and the 22,00 hours the period that the authorities believe the child went missing.

And Tanner ??? :shock:
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Re: 24 Horas - 29/5/2008

Postby chronictonic » Thu May 29, 2008 3:35 am

tanner is useless to the case at this point. She would only muddle it further. She did so much damage to this case and I wonder what her payment was what was her payoff personally for doing so?

Thanx for the lnk; i tried to post the lnk to tonites urls but it went in the wrong place, couldnt even find an active thread today about the case really.
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Re: 24 Horas - 29/5/2008

Postby aura2312 » Thu May 29, 2008 3:38 am

To note that the depositions of Fiona Payne and her husband are considered fundamental to elaborate the accusation that is almost concluded.


maybe the Paynes have been the honest ones and it seems the pj are reliant on their statements to be able to accuse and charge the Mccanns and who else!!

If they have reliable witnesses to say that Tanner never left the Tapas bar, she must be in big trouble. No wonder she doesnt want to go back.

I really hope they throw everything they can to this despicable people.
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Re: 24 Horas - 29/5/2008

Postby blossom » Thu May 29, 2008 3:54 am

Did Gerry McCann really do his 'check"?

What if he just told Kate he did it and that was actually his routine?

What if he talked with JW but had not actually 'checked' or seen M before or after?

What if he just feeds Kate with a lot of BS?

What if Kate still doesn't know that he didn't actually see M. - he just didn't want them to wake up and he had his mind on a grand finale to the evening, with Kate?
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Re: 24 Horas - 29/5/2008

Postby ActOneSceneOne » Thu May 29, 2008 3:57 am

aura2312 wrote:
To note that the depositions of Fiona Payne and her husband are considered fundamental to elaborate the accusation that is almost concluded.


maybe the Paynes have been the honest ones and it seems the pj are reliant on their statements to be able to accuse and charge the Mccanns and who else!!

If they have reliable witnesses to say that Tanner never left the Tapas bar, she must be in big trouble. No wonder she doesnt want to go back.

I really hope they throw everything they can to this despicable people.


I would temper that first statement re the Paynes' honesty a bit to say they may have been honest about their movements the night of the 3rd. Fiona, after all, is one of the 3 who came out accusing Robert Murat of being at the Ocean Club when no one who knew him said they spotted him there. Dishonest or a case of mistaken identity? There's no news of her having retracted that part of her statement so she still looks a bit questionable to me!
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Re: 24 Horas - 29/5/2008

Postby mag54 » Thu May 29, 2008 4:15 am

Many thanks Li. So, no check by JT then? No surprises there seeing as she didn't know if she was coming or going, she obviously couldn't remember the story she was supposed to tell!! Do we expect more aguidos? What will be the next move now, surely the refusal of the McC's and friends will prove some points for the PJ, where do they go from here? Are charges imminent.... :?
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Re: 24 Horas - 29/5/2008

Postby roisin » Thu May 29, 2008 4:19 am

ActOneSceneOne wrote:
aura2312 wrote:
To note that the depositions of Fiona Payne and her husband are considered fundamental to elaborate the accusation that is almost concluded.


maybe the Paynes have been the honest ones and it seems the pj are reliant on their statements to be able to accuse and charge the Mccanns and who else!!

If they have reliable witnesses to say that Tanner never left the Tapas bar, she must be in big trouble. No wonder she doesnt want to go back.

I really hope they throw everything they can to this despicable people.


I would temper that first statement re the Paynes' honesty a bit to say they may have been honest about their movements the night of the 3rd. Fiona, after all, is one of the 3 who came out accusing Robert Murat of being at the Ocean Club when no one who knew him said they spotted him there. Dishonest or a case of mistaken identity? There's no news of her having retracted that part of her statement so she still looks a bit questionable to me!


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Re: 24 Horas - 29/5/2008

Postby dogrose » Thu May 29, 2008 4:24 am

They made several demands, from a special airplane to a five star hotel. The last that they demanded was not to be constituted arguidos, whilst the McCanns demanded exactly the contrary. According to our law that is impossible to guarantee", explained to the 24 Horas a judicial responsible connected to the process.


not sure what is meant here. did the McCanns want the them made arguiodos?

anyway was just as we thought. The Payne group have told the truth, and were happy to go. only those with something to fear including child neglect charges didn't.


thank you li
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Re: 24 Horas - 29/5/2008

Postby xklamation » Thu May 29, 2008 4:27 am

Minor edits...

McCann Friends Refused to Return to Portugal: Afraid of being constituted arguidos

The other two couples that left the children in the Ocean Club were afraid by the fact that the Portuguese law provides a penalty up to 10 years in jail to those that abandon minors


Two couples refused to return to Portugal to cooperate with the PJ in the reenactment of the 3rd of May of 2007. Amongst the motives for the refusal, the 24 Horas discovered that it was the fact that Jane Tanner, Russel O'Brien, Rachel and Matthew Oldfield were afraid of being constituted as arguidos.

Image

From the group of nine people that dined in the Tapas Bar in the night of the disappearance, apart from Maddie's parents these were the couples who also had children. And also left the children alone in the apartments of the Ocean Club - which according to the article 138┬║ of the Penal Code, constitutes a crime of exposure or abandonment that can be punishable with ten years in jail.

"They made several demands, from a private Jet to a five star hotel. Their last request was not to be constituted arguidos, whilst the McCanns demanded exactly the opposite. According to our law that is impossible to guarantee", explained to the 24 Horas a judicial responsible connected to the process.

According to the witness statements collected by the PJ at the Tapas Bar, only Russel O'Brien and Gerry McCann left the restaurant between 19h00 and 22h00, period that the authorities believe the child went missing.

"The refusal of the friends to return to Portugal is unbelievable. Only three said they would come", David Payne, Dianne Webster and Fiona, said the same source.
Notice that the depositions of Fiona Payne and her husband are considered to be fundamental to elaborate the Public Ministry's accusation which is almost concluded.

Facts

Calm

Diane Webster, 63 years old, was the most calm person of the group. After Kate entered the Bar screaming "they've taken her", she was calm and serene.

Reservation

The reservation of the apartments of the Ocean Club - made through the Internet - was done by David Payne one of the witnesses that was available to return to Portugal.

Three consistent versions

The Judiciary Police investigators who are connected to the Maddie's process, a team coordinated by the superior coordinator Paulo Rebelo and Guilhermino Encarnação, responsible for the Department of Faro, have already analysed the main statements collected in Leicester, England.

The ones that have consistency, are the ones of David and Fiona Payne and Diane Webster, the 24 Horas discovered. All the other depositions show several contradictions or do not advance anything important to the case.

In any case the statements of more than 50 persons who spent their holidays at the Ocean Club in that date and who live in England, are still being analysed.

According to the statements of these three friends of the McCanns, from 18h00 onwards none of them saw Maddie, although she was extremely active and enjoyed to be with the group.

The only person that said that went to see the child a little after 21h00 is her own father, Gerry, who has confessed that he was talking for several minutes with a friend close to the apartment and after that only his wife Kate that gave the alarm of the disappearance after 22h30 . The authorities were only called near 23h45.

Source: 24 Horas
Translation by Li/Minor edits X.
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Re: 24 Horas - 29/5/2008

Postby aura2312 » Thu May 29, 2008 4:58 am

I would temper that first statement re the Paynes' honesty a bit to say they may have been honest about their movements the night of the 3rd. Fiona, after all, is one of the 3 who came out accusing Robert Murat of being at the Ocean Club when no one who knew him said they spotted him there. Dishonest or a case of mistaken identity? There's no news of her having retracted that part of her statement so she still looks a bit questionable to me!


Do you think it is possible that she came clean at her recent interviews and fessed up to making it up about seeing Murat and the Pj then assuring she wouldnt be charged as she had come clean and gave 'good' info with regard to the movements of others on the night of the 3rd. Therefore helping the Pj to confirm what they probably already knew.

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Re: 24 Horas - 29/5/2008

Postby RstJ » Thu May 29, 2008 5:06 am

I'm guessing Tomas' source is Amaral. What I don't get is why the times are so screwy--

Li wrote:According to testimonies collected by the PJ in the Tapas Bar, only Russel O'Brien and Gerry McCann left the restaurant between 19,00 and 22,00 hours the period that the authorities believe the child went missing.


That we've heard, none of the Tapas were even *in* the restaurant until ~21:00. So why is he giving us 19-22:00? From 19-20:30 the McCanns are supposed to have been in their apartment.

To note that the depositions of Fiona Payne and her husband are considered fundamental to elaborate the accusation that is almost concluded.


It would be nice if our judicial source indicated just what's in their depositions that's fundamental. David Payne, sure. He's supposedly the last person to see Madeleine other than the McCanns. But what does Fiona have to add?



Diane Webster, 63 years old, was the most calm person of the group. After Kate entered the Bar screaming "they've taken her", she was calm and serene.


Which leads us to believe...what? That the old bat had something to do with the disappearance or somehow knew something?

The reservation of the apartments of the Ocean Club - made through the Internet - was done by David Payne one of the witnesses that was available to return to Portugal.


Once again, so what?


According to the depositions of these three friends of the McCanns from 18,00 hours onwards none of them saw Maddie, although she was extremely active and liked to be with the group.


Ok, now *this* is a change. Because now it appears that David Payne did *not* claim to have seen her at 18:30. Or Tomas isn't aware of previous claims that he had. The implication, as in previous articles, is that some witnesses *did* see her up until 18:00. Yet we've never heard from any of these witnesses, with the exception of Pennington, who appears to have given two different versions of the evening.



The only person that says that went to see the child after 21,00 hours is her father Gerry that confessed that he was talking for several minutes with a friend near the door of the flat and after that only his wife Kate that gave the alarm of the disappearance after 22,30 hours.


This is the second time Tomas has given 22:30 as the time of Kate's check. Every other story we've heard says 22:00 (although some early stories had 21:30). Tomas has moved the timeline back a half hour with no explanation, and no indication that he's even aware of the difference.

How are we supposed to take this article?


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Re: 24 Horas - 29/5/2008

Postby Impartial » Thu May 29, 2008 5:09 am

dogrose wrote:
They made several demands, from a special airplane to a five star hotel. The last that they demanded was not to be constituted arguidos, whilst the McCanns demanded exactly the contrary. According to our law that is impossible to guarantee", explained to the 24 Horas a judicial responsible connected to the process.


not sure what is meant here. did the McCanns want the them made arguiodos?



The Tapas 4 wanted a guarantee not to be made arguido and the McCanns wanted their status lifted

Thats how I understand it.
All my posts are based on the fact that Kate and Gerry were made arguidos - on suspicion of concealment of the corpse and simulation of the crime of abduction (JdN)
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